alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Just seen on the news how there's a protest rally, planned by the tw@ts who hunt with dogs,going to bring the centre of London to a standstill, and the government are letting them do it! [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Now correct me if I'm wrong,(and I have been known to be), but didn't the same government put a stop to the one planned by the "fuel protesters", on the grounds that they couldn't be allowed to disrupt the capital?[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Am I missing something here??Or are B.Liar and the Cronies going to run away from this one AGAIN???[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

[Edited by alcazar - 9/16/2002 6:21:43 PM]

bug-eyed wonder

Good on them,nice to see someone stand up for what they believe in rather than just sitting moaning in the background.

pslewis

These bl00dy Foxhunters make me laugh!!

They say that hundreds of dogs will have to be put-down if the ban goes ahead - yes, ok maybe true BUT; and this is the killer, THEY kill their dogs when they are a couple of years old ANYWAY!!!

So, outlaw foxkilling in 2 years time - that way all of the dogs would have been MURDERED by that shower ANYWAY!! any attempt to make them out as loving their little pet dogs should be exposed as a LIE .................. they care as little for them as they do the crops they destroy, the animals they kill and the general damage their horses do.

Tell you what? lets tie a fox fur to THEM and chase them over the fields?? we will kill them humanely NOT!!!

Pete

Jerome

Without taking sides, the irony is that if the anti's get their way, the foxes will end up being killed in arguably less pleasant ways - poisoning, traps/snares, shooting etc. Not that being ripped to shreds by hounds is in any way pleasant.

[Edited by Jerome - 9/16/2002 7:12:55 PM]

The Zohan

Agree with Pete on this one!

Pete, why do they kill of the dogs after such a short time?

Paul

JFB

Govt wants to ban Fox hunting.

What sort of extermination program did they sanction during foot and mouth outbreak where vaccination would have been a viable alternative.

If fox hunting goes, so does a way of life and it's not just "hooray Henrys" that are involved in this activity.

Next stop is angling and then probably cruelty to clay pigeons!!!!!

Victimisation (If that's a word)

Jerome (The other one)

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

Uh-oh

Lot of blinkered and mis-informed people here

First things first...

The march is on SUNDAY 22nd SEPTEMBER - that is a SUNDAY when not a lot happens in the capital anyway - right?



If you want to get all the reasons why the Countryside Alliance are having a march (and its not all about banning fox-hunting, though that is a part) then LOOK HERE & HERE!

Get the whole picture guys before shooting off at the mouth please!

[Edited To Add Changed Link]

[Edited by Puff The Magic Wagon! - 9/16/2002 7:34:30 PM]

stephen emery

shout ban !
steve
ps fox hunting lot always try to high jack the day

Reffro

Thank you Puff, its nice to see the blinkers aren't on everyone here. And as for a hunter, I used to hunt when I was younger. I'm not going to debate hunting in here as it will just turn into a slanging match.

But and it is a big one, the Countryside march is an organised demonstration on a Sunday not a weekday, it has been planned for months and will have been planned in consultation with the police. You may not agree with my point of view regarding hunting, but you cannot deny me my right to legally demonstrate on this is issue.

Rusty Festa

I've never understood why, when you need to kill vermin such as foxes, the most cost effective and humane way - a bullet through the head - is always overlooked in favour of an alternative method that takes considerbley and involves pleasuring the many?

I agree snaring is a slow death and gassing is non-selective (ie could be badgers, rabbits, foxes, stoats, otters, voles, etc down there) but chasing over fields with dogs is just OTT - what next, will badger baiting and hare coarsing be a justified method of pest control?

dsmith

The issue is much wider and surrounds the governments blinkered approach to issues it doesn't understand. (much like many people on here )

Government should be for all the people not just those in urban areas......

Deano

ScoobyTal

Yes the march is not just about hunting (which is nothing compared with the intensive livestock farming practices that alote of farmers are forced to adopt to even break even)

Its about the coutry way of life being slowly erroded away and no one doing anything about it

think about this my friends family own a medium sized farm (200 acres) his farther runs it full time 80 hrs a week average and my pal puts in about 20 hrs a week FOC last year they didnt earn enough to pay tax !!

Think about that while sitting at work on scoobynet getting silly money

Tal - A towny but not a short sighted blinkered one

Rusty Festa

Tal - why do they do it then?

If people stopped doing it because they could not make money then maybe the governemnt would start to sit up.

If I ran a business and paid people minimum wage and they never complained about it then I would not volunteer a payrise - if they walked out and I could not replace them with the p1ss poor wage I was offering then I would have to think twice (poor analogy, I know but I hope you can see the point I amtrying to get accross)

I can see why people are going on a march - to get peoples attention - but they won't get much sympathy this way IMHO

[Edited by Rusty Festa - 9/16/2002 8:17:46 PM]

dsmith

Hmmmmm so you want them to give up land that in some cases will have been farmed for generations. Abandon the only way of life they've ever known. Lay off all workers and do what exactly ..... all in the pursuit of making their point.

Think I can just about get my head round why people feel demonstrating might be the prefered option....

Deano

(Who has no intention of farming or fox-hunting - but appreciates living in the country that others work so hard to maintain)

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

Rusty

The reason that they probably work on the farm is that that is their home and the lifestyle they've probably known since bairns. You work hard if you're in danger of losing your house and living. And it won't be because its badly run either, its because the money in farming is cr@p.

Take a moment to read the sites on my links to understand some of the issues involved.

ScoobyTal

Thanks for that puff We get upset when people tell you to just walk away from generations of farming that should be paying but isn't at the moment btw my pal has no choice but to work as a Development Engineer but thats not the point it's his birth right for **** sake............. This is a very emotive subject

father_jack

I think fox hunting should be banned in the country but allowed in the city. They're always tearing up my bloody bin bags for left over fois gras.
Foxes eh

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Right, got my "blinkers off" and read the sh*t on those two sites you put up. The sad, the appalling, thing was that the whole thing is being used as a cover for the rich b@st@rds that think it's OK to run around all over other peolpe's land, chasing a fox so that their dogs can rip it to bits. All the sh*t about countryside rights, vermin, humane ways to kill, etc are just that: ****.
I really feel sorry for the people who are taken in by this cr@p, you need to look at what's going on in this country: we are still under the rule of the so-called "upper classes", and they are scared stiff that we are going to start to undo the web of deceit that they have spun over us during the last 200 years.
You need to look at the amount of land that is "private" in this country, the fact that 1% of the population owns 90% of the wealth, and the way the rights of the workers have been eroded yet again, even during the last 20 years. THEN you can see why these odious creeps want, nay need to keep their so-called sport alive. It's a symbol of their power over us, and this weak-livered, two-faced bunch of lying @rseholes that calls itself "new labour" is helping them to do it.
Down with the proles. Long live the toffs. The cheque's in the post "Tone"! [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Rant mode ff.

bug-eyed wonder

This thread has taken a completely different direction now.
AFAIK this demo is as much to do with the ever increasing change in legislation being forced on the farming community in Britain which is led by the supermarkets and enforced by government. It's no wonder people are driven to such measures when their business is being made uncompetitive on a European/world market yet the main players in the retail trade will happily take the most profitable route when the currency differential is in their favour ie strong pound =import as much as possible to keep the large shareholders happy.
British farmers are not looking for handouts IMO,rather being treated on a level playing field with competing countries.

There is a view that everyone earning/scraping a living in this area is automatically some sort of leech living off subsidies and always whinging about nothing. This may be true in some cases but certain areas of agriculture recieve none of the perceived "free money".

It's how I earn my living and all I'd want is a level playing field with the rest of Europe.

ps I'm good at what I do and can afford my "toys"!

[Edited by bug-eyed wonder - 9/16/2002 9:29:36 PM]

bug-eyed wonder

Well after all that typing it would be rude to resist the urge!

dsmith

LOL - you're absolutely certain about that ?

Sith

Personally I couldn't give a flying *** if people go Fox hunting. That's what they do, let them get on with it. If thats banned then something else will be next on the banning list.

The human race is destructive by its nature. We have always hunted regardless of food or fun.

If we ban everthing that could offend someone else then we will end up like little drones in plain white houses.

I have a pet Rat which I love dearly, but I'm not a snarling beast trying to stop animal testing at the labs.

P.

pslewis

All about market forces I'm afraid - did we hear the farmers whining about taking money for NOTHING from Europe? NO

All that 'Set-Aside Land' - just leave it and we will pay you wads, that was all returned was it? NO

I really do have sympathy with the 'Poor' farmer driving around his 200 (small!!!!!) acre farm in his new Tonka Toy 4x4 Big 'F' Off mother - running on agricultural diesel!! Hmmmmmmmmm there are a lot of very rich farmers out there who just saw their income drop to near 'normal' levels and they dont like it!! Why dont they pay their staff (who ARE trodden on by the gentry) a decent wage?

There was a programme on about a dairy farmer who was complaining that he was selling his milk at a loss - when I worked out his turnover it was about £160,000 a year!!!!!!!! now, how much is it to run a dairy herd?? not sure - BUT I would hazard a guess that he has AT LEAST £25000 left!!! and THATS struggling???? His turnover WAS over 4 times that once!!!!! did he sell his milk cheaper to us then?? NO!!!! so he can sod off NOW!!

Rant over - phew

Pete

Huxley

Here Here Pete

I know they treat their staff like **** and piff poor wages that's all im saying.

Huxley

bug-eyed wonder

PSLewis you are talking complete bollox! Firstly the farmer never sets the price of his produce,he receives what is left after the supermarkets,processors and all have had their cut. If you watched the same program as me about the milk wars could you explain to me the affluent lifestyle of that particular man?
Receiving 4 times the price,post your facts please. There's something wrong when bottled water,which surely only requires distribution is selling for more than milk?
Also an obviously intelligent man as yourself will know that not all sectors of agriculture get subsidies.

ps I can turn over the best part of a million quid in a "decent" year,never received a penny in subsidies (never want to). The real issue is a government which seems determined to impose an ever increasing series of regulations making my industry uncompetitive on a global market. I have no more sympathy to those standing looking for handouts than you.

You for one have never been backwards in boasting about your earnings so why should I sit back and see my way of earning money be run into the ground?

pslewis

I think the red-mist has clouded your eyes - I said that his turnover WAS 4 times what it is now ( I think that was about 6 years ago too!!! ) - so, he was doing VERY NICELY thank you. I have NO problem with people earning loads if they can - what I DO have a problem with is them same people bleeting when their income drops because of market forces.

I do NOT want to pay that farmer more than I have to for his milk, thank you very much. And if he doesnt like the price the supermarket pays then he should sell elsewhere, simple really?! If he cant sell elsewhere for more then he needs to stop Milk production - THEN there will be a shortage and the price will go UP!!!

I want my pinta to cost me 10p - the supermarket will sell me it for that if thats all I, and others, will pay. The farmers gripe is with the market and that is why their argument falls down. Farmers are NOT a special case, as Fire Fighjters are not, as nurses are not, as the miners were not .............. times have changed.

If the country decides that it no longer needs Nuclear Missiles then I will be out of a job - but will I go on a march to London?? Will I bollox, I will dust myself down and do what I can to earn whatever living I can wherever I can. UNLESS you want me to be a special case?? and reward me with my pay and conditions as they are even though NO-ONE wants what I can offer anymore???

Pete

jasonwrxowner

RUN THE ******* OVER!

SimonH

Class war!!!!!!!! – lol

I think it’s just as well 90% of the land in this country is in private hands – if it wasn’t it would just become a dumping ground for all the fridges and sofas that the grimy townies no longer wanted or could fit into the seething cesspits that are their cities.

Sorry, not a fan of cities.

I always enjoy these type of debates/rants. They pretty much always end up with the class warriors spouting their drivel about being the oppressed underclass being downtrodden by the evil rich landowning gentry.

I went to university in London and have subsequently lived in London and worked in the middle of town for a while so I know what it’s like living in a city (you can keep it, by the way).
I am not “landed gentry” nor do I have any relatives who are.
I have never hunted, in fact, I can’t ride a horse and don’t particularly like them.
I have no relatives who farm and think that market forces should ultimately be allowed to play out their actions on the farmers. If that means they go to the wall then so be it.
I do however support those marching to London as I support those who feel that the countryside and those that live in it are being bent over the table by the a few militant lefties and a bunch of dribbling townies who wouldn’t know a cow if it bit them on the ****. Despite agreeing that market forces need to be allowed to play out there actions on farmers I also feel that the increasing bureaucracy being piled onto the farmers is indicative of the complete lack of comprehension that the Whitehall W@nkers have the real world.

Hunting is also part of “the countryside”. I have absolutely no problem with it at all and couldn’t give a monkey’s if poor Mr Fluffy Fox gets his head bitten off by a pack of dogs. In just the same that I couldn’t care if Mr Squeaky Mouse gets his skull crushed in a mousetrap or Mr Nibbly Rat gets his brains blown out with a shotgun. I know people that hunt. They are about as gentrified as Mr alcazar above. They are just ordinary folk who enjoy riding. Oh, and you don’t need to be a multi-billionaire or Lord of the Manor to able to ride – all sorts of people do it.

This isn’t about animal welfare this is about class war plain and simple. It’s an opportunity for the oppressed masses (in their Imprezas ) to rise up and crush the evil, elite ruling classes and throw off the shackles of oppression. What a load of crap. I’d suggest that none of you are “oppressed” by the “gentry” – more likely it’s just jealousy that Lord Such-n-such inherited a big house and a bit of cash from his ancestors whilst you didn’t. Get over it. You’re more likely to be oppressed by your nouveaux riche factory owner or your international multinational managing director who couldn’t give a toss if you lived or died.

I would support a ban on fox hunting if were linked to a ban on fishing. And not just fly fishing but good old honest fishing down on the canal. Oh hang on, can’t do that – that’s a “working man’s” sport
isn’t .......?

Right, I’m off to spin some more “web of deceit” (liked that one)

merkin

Too busy to write a reasoned reply, so i'll just agree with simon H