Foxhunting types:1, Motorists:0
17 September 2002, 09:11 AM
#31
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ban fishing.....
if ppl fished by packs of 30 men wading down the stream blowing horns while teams of trained otters chased down the fish then they prob would ban it
T
ps- who hunts mr nbbly rat with a SHOTGUN!!!
if ppl fished by packs of 30 men wading down the stream blowing horns while teams of trained otters chased down the fish then they prob would ban it
T
ps- who hunts mr nbbly rat with a SHOTGUN!!!
17 September 2002, 09:16 AM
#32
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Totally agree with Simon H, haven't got time for a long reply at the mo.
Tiggs, why not? Admitedly, its not ideal, but it does the job. Used to use either a little .22 or a 410 for it myself.
Tiggs, why not? Admitedly, its not ideal, but it does the job. Used to use either a little .22 or a 410 for it myself.
17 September 2002, 09:32 AM
#33
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I meant a 410 - although a double barrel reservoir dogs special would make a tidy mess of Mr Rat
So 30 blokes sitting by the canal catching 60 fish is okay then? Roger.
So 30 blokes sitting by the canal catching 60 fish is okay then? Roger.
17 September 2002, 09:35 AM
#35
Simonh - brilliant. Could have written that myself if I could be bothered! Townies - worry about your own problems. Leave the countryside to us bumpkins that understand it.
I am not a fan of foxhunting but am very anti banning. Foxhunting and similar activites provide a huge amount of rural employment and revenue, some of which goes to maintaining footpaths, bridleways etc for the enjoyment of everyone.
Very emotive subject. People on here almost come to blows over scooby v cossie threads. This one could really kick off!
I am not a fan of foxhunting but am very anti banning. Foxhunting and similar activites provide a huge amount of rural employment and revenue, some of which goes to maintaining footpaths, bridleways etc for the enjoyment of everyone.
Very emotive subject. People on here almost come to blows over scooby v cossie threads. This one could really kick off!
17 September 2002, 09:44 AM
#36
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As far as I'm concerned, the countryside alliance are a bunch of toffs who'd do well to just thank their lucky stars they don't live in Nigeria.
As for fox-hunting, I understand that foxes have to be controlled, but cars and roads do a far better job than a bunch of idiots in silly coats riding across other peoples' land disturbing the peace and quiet. Frankly, it all seems like an excessive waste of energy to me though - I'd suggest that a high-velocity rifle and an armchair would be a much more civilised way of doing it.
As for fox-hunting, I understand that foxes have to be controlled, but cars and roads do a far better job than a bunch of idiots in silly coats riding across other peoples' land disturbing the peace and quiet. Frankly, it all seems like an excessive waste of energy to me though - I'd suggest that a high-velocity rifle and an armchair would be a much more civilised way of doing it.
17 September 2002, 09:46 AM
#37
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The fish generally aren't torn apart - usually just have their bellies slit open in a tidy fashion, guts ripped out and then find them selves shoved under a grill
As for the going-anywhere business - had the hunt through your garden? Thought not. Nor me. The hunt don't ride wherever they please - the owners of the land they do ride on either don't mind or actively encourage it. And, yes I know, there have been occasions where they have strayed but, hey, a friend of mine had someone crash a car through the side of their house - without permission!! Lets ban cars blah blah.
Bloody hell - is that the time
Better go to work 
As for the going-anywhere business - had the hunt through your garden? Thought not. Nor me. The hunt don't ride wherever they please - the owners of the land they do ride on either don't mind or actively encourage it. And, yes I know, there have been occasions where they have strayed but, hey, a friend of mine had someone crash a car through the side of their house - without permission!! Lets ban cars blah blah.
Bloody hell - is that the time
Better go to work
17 September 2002, 09:51 AM
#38
SimonH: most fish are carefully looked after, and then put back, not much the worse for their experience.
My friend had a hunt go over his land w/o permission, when he complained, and upper class b*tch hit him with a riding crop(?). The police weren't interested in the trespass or the assault. But if he'd hit her........................
My friend had a hunt go over his land w/o permission, when he complained, and upper class b*tch hit him with a riding crop(?). The police weren't interested in the trespass or the assault. But if he'd hit her........................
17 September 2002, 10:05 AM
#39
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Fishing - There's two small ponds near me which usually have about 50 fat chaps sat round it pulling out fish all day and throwing back the ones that aren't pulled apart by the sport - Yes they don't have horns but this won't get banned - it will be the Salmon fishing that gets it as this is done by the Gentry etc and, as stated before, this all about the class war !
Sort out your own lives before trying to change everyone elses !
Jase
ps I might be wrong but Fox Hunting does give the poor little furry fox a chance - when they start shooting the little ******* you'll get the same townie tossers coming out banning shooting !
Sort out your own lives before trying to change everyone elses !
Jase
ps I might be wrong but Fox Hunting does give the poor little furry fox a chance - when they start shooting the little ******* you'll get the same townie tossers coming out banning shooting !
17 September 2002, 10:06 AM
#40
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You have a friend with "land" ?. Surely you feel oppressed by him ? that must put a terrible strain on your friendship ?. It is nice to see though that you've managed to forge a relationship over such a wide class boundary. It will give real hope to all the other downtrodden workers.
17 September 2002, 10:17 AM
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Surely this march is to raise the profile of the countryside in what is a Urban domated government? Nothing to do with class etc?
I live on the endge of the New Forest -have lived in towns yet worked in the Countryside for most of my life...I know very few "Upper Class" people in the countryside, most live in the towns e.g. Large houses in Winchester/Tunbridge Wells etc, the majority of people in the Countryside have reasonable houses and work like everyone else. It's a common myth that there are "castles on every corner" as I've heard someone say before
In fact, the large commuter houses are usually on the edge of cities/large towns and they just pretend they live in the countryside
The march is about raising awareness of Countryside issues. For example, take the governments Transport Strategy. We have 100's of government funded schemes for city areas, the majority of money goes into the cities and towns - but to get funding for much needed public transport in rural areas is alot more difficult, hense rural areas suffering. Any problems getting money for towns? I think not.
Jen
I live on the endge of the New Forest -have lived in towns yet worked in the Countryside for most of my life...I know very few "Upper Class" people in the countryside, most live in the towns e.g. Large houses in Winchester/Tunbridge Wells etc, the majority of people in the Countryside have reasonable houses and work like everyone else. It's a common myth that there are "castles on every corner" as I've heard someone say before
In fact, the large commuter houses are usually on the edge of cities/large towns and they just pretend they live in the countryside The march is about raising awareness of Countryside issues. For example, take the governments Transport Strategy. We have 100's of government funded schemes for city areas, the majority of money goes into the cities and towns - but to get funding for much needed public transport in rural areas is alot more difficult, hense rural areas suffering. Any problems getting money for towns? I think not.
Jen
17 September 2002, 10:28 AM
#43
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Hmm..I have sympathy for many farmers who are struggling due to cheap imports from heavily subsidised european farming 
I deal with insolvent farmers and farms on a regular basis, so I see it first hand and therefore appreciate what I am talking about.
BUT, this is a democratic society. Fox hunting has already been banned in Scotland with huge public support.
The Scottish Parliament went through a long and tortuous procedure on the road to a ban on hunting in Scotland. Mike Watson MSP announced his intention to introduce a Members Bill to ban hunting with dogs in Scotland in Autumn 1999. He was supported in this by many MSPs including Tricia Marwick MSP and Bristow Muldoon MSP. Following lengthy consideration in the hostile Rural Development Committee, the Parliament rejected a negative committee report voting on September 19, 2001 in favour of the Bill by 84 votes to 34.
The Bill was then sent back to the Rural Development Committee for line by line butchery, and returned to the Parliament on February 13, 2002 where MSPs reversed a series of committee amendments and passed the Bill by 83 votes to 36.
The revised Bill obtained Royal Assent in March and became an Act of the Scottish Parliament, the Protection of Wild Mammals (Scotland) Act. on March 15, 2002. Following the laying before the Scottish Parliament of the Protection of Wild Mammals (Scotland) Act 2002 (Commencement) Order 2002 it will be brought into effect on August 1, 2002.
Was there a backlash? No
Has there been a mass slaughter of the hunting dogs?...No
Has there been a significant impact on local economies?...No
Are people on the streets out of work as a result?...No
Has the whole thing blown over and the have the largely "up there own ar$e" hunting set gone away quietly to ride their horses in more socialy acceptable ways?....Yes.
Those are simple facts.
In england of course, those voting in the house of lords were mostly against an all out ban, but then they would be, given their social circumstances. I think we can all agree that the house of lords is hardly representative of the population as a whole.
I'm all in favour of preserving country life, don't get me wrong. But, certain things which may have been acceptable in the past are no longer acceptable now. Its called change, and it happens all the time. Accept it.
Personally, I find fox hunting with hounds abhorrent. What I find equally abhorent is the continued contention that hunting is done for the purposes of keeping the numbers of foxes down
People hunt for purely personal reasons because they enjoy it. Those who hunt don't want it banned because it would spoil their fun..... nothing more, nothing less. So lets cut the utter cr@p with all the arguments about people being out of work and economic crisis in the hunt locales.
As pete says, the hounds do not have a long lifespan. Its qute simple, they cant run as fast and as long when they get older
So, on one side you have a group of people, predominantly out of touch with reality irrespective of wealth, who don't want their fun spoiled. Aw, shame. On the other, we have an animal suffering huge distress and a painful death, to the delight of many who take part. Not a difficult call in my book.
To finish for now, on what is a very emotive subject, I wonder what would happen if instead of a large number of individuals on horseback following a pack of hounds chasing a fox more or less where the fox took them we had a large number of unemployed people from an economically deprived inner city area on trails bikes using their bull terriers, Alsatians and Rottweilers to chase ferral cats through surbuban areas, without any damage, of course?
Yeah, right, like that would be allowed to happen.
I rest my case.
D
I deal with insolvent farmers and farms on a regular basis, so I see it first hand and therefore appreciate what I am talking about.
BUT, this is a democratic society. Fox hunting has already been banned in Scotland with huge public support.
The Scottish Parliament went through a long and tortuous procedure on the road to a ban on hunting in Scotland. Mike Watson MSP announced his intention to introduce a Members Bill to ban hunting with dogs in Scotland in Autumn 1999. He was supported in this by many MSPs including Tricia Marwick MSP and Bristow Muldoon MSP. Following lengthy consideration in the hostile Rural Development Committee, the Parliament rejected a negative committee report voting on September 19, 2001 in favour of the Bill by 84 votes to 34.
The Bill was then sent back to the Rural Development Committee for line by line butchery, and returned to the Parliament on February 13, 2002 where MSPs reversed a series of committee amendments and passed the Bill by 83 votes to 36.
The revised Bill obtained Royal Assent in March and became an Act of the Scottish Parliament, the Protection of Wild Mammals (Scotland) Act. on March 15, 2002. Following the laying before the Scottish Parliament of the Protection of Wild Mammals (Scotland) Act 2002 (Commencement) Order 2002 it will be brought into effect on August 1, 2002.
Was there a backlash? No
Has there been a mass slaughter of the hunting dogs?...No
Has there been a significant impact on local economies?...No
Are people on the streets out of work as a result?...No
Has the whole thing blown over and the have the largely "up there own ar$e" hunting set gone away quietly to ride their horses in more socialy acceptable ways?....Yes.
Those are simple facts.
In england of course, those voting in the house of lords were mostly against an all out ban, but then they would be, given their social circumstances. I think we can all agree that the house of lords is hardly representative of the population as a whole.
I'm all in favour of preserving country life, don't get me wrong. But, certain things which may have been acceptable in the past are no longer acceptable now. Its called change, and it happens all the time. Accept it.
Personally, I find fox hunting with hounds abhorrent. What I find equally abhorent is the continued contention that hunting is done for the purposes of keeping the numbers of foxes down
People hunt for purely personal reasons because they enjoy it. Those who hunt don't want it banned because it would spoil their fun..... nothing more, nothing less. So lets cut the utter cr@p with all the arguments about people being out of work and economic crisis in the hunt locales.
As pete says, the hounds do not have a long lifespan. Its qute simple, they cant run as fast and as long when they get older
So, on one side you have a group of people, predominantly out of touch with reality irrespective of wealth, who don't want their fun spoiled. Aw, shame. On the other, we have an animal suffering huge distress and a painful death, to the delight of many who take part. Not a difficult call in my book.
To finish for now, on what is a very emotive subject, I wonder what would happen if instead of a large number of individuals on horseback following a pack of hounds chasing a fox more or less where the fox took them we had a large number of unemployed people from an economically deprived inner city area on trails bikes using their bull terriers, Alsatians and Rottweilers to chase ferral cats through surbuban areas, without any damage, of course?
Yeah, right, like that would be allowed to happen.
I rest my case.
D
17 September 2002, 10:33 AM
#45
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Well put Diablo
...all this "we'd have to kill the hounds", "I wouldn't be able to contiue my hobby" stuff is crap anyway. it's makes me want to scream - have you never heard of Drag Hunting?! Hounds chase a bloke with a bag with artificial scent on - hounds happy, people happy, no fox ripped to shreads
...all this "we'd have to kill the hounds", "I wouldn't be able to contiue my hobby" stuff is crap anyway. it's makes me want to scream - have you never heard of Drag Hunting?! Hounds chase a bloke with a bag with artificial scent on - hounds happy, people happy, no fox ripped to shreads
17 September 2002, 10:38 AM
#46
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Exactly. In fact, it could be a way to solve the immigration problem in a stroke - just let the toffs chase illegals, and when they catch them tear them to bits.
17 September 2002, 10:49 AM
#49
Near where I live, a party of illegals (8 chinese men, 1 chinese woman), were spotted crossing a farmer's land. Police arrive, take them into custody. An hour or so later, they're set free, each bearing a piece of paper telling them how to apply for asylum.
Reason: not enough staff at the local immigration office.[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Perhaps hunting them isn't such a bad idea- at least it'll give the toffs something to do.:
Reason: not enough staff at the local immigration office.[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Perhaps hunting them isn't such a bad idea- at least it'll give the toffs something to do.
:
17 September 2002, 10:50 AM
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Look people. I think we are missing one very important point here. That is, the horses natural instinct to wonder around the countryside in packs and hunt small furry creatures...
17 September 2002, 10:52 AM
#51
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I think we are missing one very important point here. That is, the horses natural instinct to wonder around the countryside in packs and hunt small furry creatures...
17 September 2002, 11:05 AM
#52
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Scoobynet, as a group, has in the past been upset when one or two idiots in an Impreza or other high perfromance car has driven dangerously and caused all the other responsible Impreza owners/high performance car drivers to be tarred with the same brush.
As such I have found the references to class in this debate pretty hypocritical. I would wager anyone here could spend an evening down the pub with someone who is 'upper class' or an aristocrat by birth and they wouldn't even know it.
It is only when someone is rude and obnoxious that they are noticed and as a result everyone from a similar background gets tarred with the same brush.
By all means debate fox hunting, my father and many like him fought so we have that freedom, but lets keep it civil and not be abusive to social groups in general just because we are offended by a minority of that group.
Robin
As such I have found the references to class in this debate pretty hypocritical. I would wager anyone here could spend an evening down the pub with someone who is 'upper class' or an aristocrat by birth and they wouldn't even know it.
It is only when someone is rude and obnoxious that they are noticed and as a result everyone from a similar background gets tarred with the same brush.
By all means debate fox hunting, my father and many like him fought so we have that freedom, but lets keep it civil and not be abusive to social groups in general just because we are offended by a minority of that group.
Robin
17 September 2002, 11:24 AM
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Telling lack of posting activity from the pro hunting brigade as they try and think up a reasoned response as to why fox hunting is justified
Methinks hell will freeze over first...
D
Methinks hell will freeze over first...
D
17 September 2002, 11:39 AM
#56
OK I'm thinking about it. Give me a moment. One reasoned argument coming up... Foxhunting is justified because... well it just is ok?
People will never agree on this one. I dont support hunting, but it is part of a bigger picture, all to do with country way of life, culture, tradition, etc. I mentioned earlier employment and the rural economy. I am not suggesting that banning foxhunting would put thousands of people out of work and put all the country estates into bankruptcy, it is the knock on effect - ie, where do you draw the line on "country pursuits"? I am expecting to be villified for this but that is my opinion.
I can respect yours, so please respect mine too. Have I ever been foxhunting - no. Will I ever go - no. Do I support a ban - no.
People will never agree on this one. I dont support hunting, but it is part of a bigger picture, all to do with country way of life, culture, tradition, etc. I mentioned earlier employment and the rural economy. I am not suggesting that banning foxhunting would put thousands of people out of work and put all the country estates into bankruptcy, it is the knock on effect - ie, where do you draw the line on "country pursuits"? I am expecting to be villified for this but that is my opinion.
I can respect yours, so please respect mine too. Have I ever been foxhunting - no. Will I ever go - no. Do I support a ban - no.
17 September 2002, 11:45 AM
#58
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Hunting happens, it creates jobs....so what !
If we put the same time and effort into saving peoples lives like Cancer and AIDS treatment we might get somewhere. Or maybe put more coppers on the street we could save human lives, nevermind bloody foxes.
We should save our own kind before spending millions saving furry vermin, no-one gives a **** about killing mice with mousetraps, and they are vermin too....
If we put the same time and effort into saving peoples lives like Cancer and AIDS treatment we might get somewhere. Or maybe put more coppers on the street we could save human lives, nevermind bloody foxes.
We should save our own kind before spending millions saving furry vermin, no-one gives a **** about killing mice with mousetraps, and they are vermin too....
17 September 2002, 11:50 AM
#59
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As is you right RB5320
I respect your right to hold your own opinion, but I cannot respect an opinion that accepts needless suffering.
Still not a reasoned argument though. It used to be an accepted way of life to throw your rubbish into the streets, its not any more.
It was a way of life to burn suspected witches at the stake. Cannot see many accepting that one in 2002
Traditions have a shelf life, because while they may have been accepted within a culture for many years, that doesn't make them right. Unfortunately some cannot accept that.
As a result, I don't believe it holds to use the "its all to do with country way of life" argument.
For many drugs, knifes and gang culture are a way of inner city life, doesn't make it right just because it exists. Not the best example, I know, because at present the law states its illegal, but it wasn't always, was it?
Look at the issues in America because of the "right to carry arms", and gun laws. Perhaps thats a better example.
Just because it has been accepted practice, doesn't make it right.
D
[Edited by diablo - 9/17/2002 11:51:39 AM]
I respect your right to hold your own opinion, but I cannot respect an opinion that accepts needless suffering.
Still not a reasoned argument though. It used to be an accepted way of life to throw your rubbish into the streets, its not any more.
It was a way of life to burn suspected witches at the stake. Cannot see many accepting that one in 2002
Traditions have a shelf life, because while they may have been accepted within a culture for many years, that doesn't make them right. Unfortunately some cannot accept that.
As a result, I don't believe it holds to use the "its all to do with country way of life" argument.
For many drugs, knifes and gang culture are a way of inner city life, doesn't make it right just because it exists. Not the best example, I know, because at present the law states its illegal, but it wasn't always, was it?
Look at the issues in America because of the "right to carry arms", and gun laws. Perhaps thats a better example.
Just because it has been accepted practice, doesn't make it right.
D
[Edited by diablo - 9/17/2002 11:51:39 AM]
17 September 2002, 11:52 AM
#60
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The other point is that just 'cos fox-hunting ends, doesn't mean that the country way of life ends. Why can't people continue with similar sports? Clay pigeon shooting is now very popular, despite the fact that sports game shooting has declined massively (although shooting fowl is slightly different if it's for consumption).
People used to claim that hunting big game (tigers, lions etc) was a 'way of life', but nobody would arguing that the wholesale slaughter of endangered big cats should be continued for the same reasons.
PS, I know foxes aren't endangered, before somebody points it out. My point is that just because something's a way of life doesn't make it right (as has already been stated).
[Edited by MarkO - 9/17/2002 11:54:00 AM]
People used to claim that hunting big game (tigers, lions etc) was a 'way of life', but nobody would arguing that the wholesale slaughter of endangered big cats should be continued for the same reasons.
PS, I know foxes aren't endangered, before somebody points it out. My point is that just because something's a way of life doesn't make it right (as has already been stated).
[Edited by MarkO - 9/17/2002 11:54:00 AM]