ID Cards Yes or No
25 July 2002, 07:45 PM
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 304
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Was discussing this at work today. What do you reckon? I say that everyone should have one and maybe let it replace the existing NI card. If you ain't got nothing to hide then why not have one?
Over to you
Over to you
and i think an ID card is a reasonable idea, however, i don't think it should be compulsary to carry it at all times
Trending Topics
25 July 2002, 09:05 PM
#9
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Nobody knows how to tie the simple knots that I know
Posts: 8,010
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
slight problem with the Euro - it isn't just the currency, its all the tax harmonisation laws that go with it. So maybe fuel and ****/beer could be cheaper, your income tax and NI will go up to match the rest of it!
25 July 2002, 11:47 PM
#12
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Surrey/London borders.
Posts: 8,300
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I.D card won't work unless it's made law to carry it at all times. So, what would then happen if you're on a legal nudist beech and asked to provide it? Whip it out of the crack of youre ****?
As for reducing crime? Surely those sl@gs who rob your house, car, etc. will be allowed to have one, and unless it weighs 50kg, it won't stop 'em running away!
It's the governments way of deterring illegal immigrants from coming into the UK. End of story.
As for reducing crime? Surely those sl@gs who rob your house, car, etc. will be allowed to have one, and unless it weighs 50kg, it won't stop 'em running away!
It's the governments way of deterring illegal immigrants from coming into the UK. End of story.
26 July 2002, 12:42 AM
#14
Scooby Regular
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It would do nothing appreciable to reduce crime or illegal immigrants, I'm afraid. Crime is purely a function of population demographics (ie amount of young men 14-26 years old) and economic conditions and opportunities available for committing crime. I had a passport in 1989 when I was 22, but it didnt stop me doing a night in the cells for something or other....!
What it would do is generally increase the state's ability to monitor us law abiding middle class masses even more than they do. (Criminals/illegals wouldn't bother or have false/stolen ones. And if its not compulsory to have one there is no point at all anyway)
Waste of taxpayers money too.
What it would do is generally increase the state's ability to monitor us law abiding middle class masses even more than they do. (Criminals/illegals wouldn't bother or have false/stolen ones. And if its not compulsory to have one there is no point at all anyway)
Waste of taxpayers money too.
26 July 2002, 06:53 PM
#16
Scooby Senior
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 5,763
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Let me repeat myself...
Stoney silence!!!!, but potentially TWO BILLION POUNDS (or less likely THREE BILLION EUROS) down the pan!!!!
mb
Can someone please explain how an ID card will reduce crime?
mb
26 July 2002, 07:23 PM
#17
Scooby Senior
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Scotchland
Posts: 6,566
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Boomer - it's quite simple really.
If you had to carry an ID Card at all times you would have to take it with you when you went on a job. Then when you get caught the police would know who you were. If you didn't have your card then they could spend three ******* years charging you with that too.
ID Cards = Complete waste of ******* MONEY. Would rather it was spent buying 8,547 Scoobies for Car jacking *******s to HAVE !
[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
If you had to carry an ID Card at all times you would have to take it with you when you went on a job. Then when you get caught the police would know who you were. If you didn't have your card then they could spend three ******* years charging you with that too.
ID Cards = Complete waste of ******* MONEY. Would rather it was spent buying 8,547 Scoobies for Car jacking *******s to HAVE !
[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
26 July 2002, 07:29 PM
#18
Scooby Regular
Yes to both.
Why all the fuss over the Euro? It would be easier to see just how much we pay more than the rest of Europe for everyday items. No f@nnying around with exchange rates when you travel across Europe too.
God, in a lot of shops you can't even use our own currency. After coming back from Northern Ireland I was told in Scotland by 4 shops that they wouldn't accept. In England too, I got knocked-back for using Scottish bank notes - WTF !!!!!!!!
The sooner we're in the Euro the better.
Stefan
Why all the fuss over the Euro? It would be easier to see just how much we pay more than the rest of Europe for everyday items. No f@nnying around with exchange rates when you travel across Europe too.
God, in a lot of shops you can't even use our own currency. After coming back from Northern Ireland I was told in Scotland by 4 shops that they wouldn't accept. In England too, I got knocked-back for using Scottish bank notes - WTF !!!!!!!!
The sooner we're in the Euro the better.
Stefan
26 July 2002, 10:41 PM
#19
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How ID cards might reduse crime, shops could insist on seeing them when paying by CC making it harder to use nicked cards. CC companies would then pass these savings onto the customers (NOT!). Could be asked to see them when claiming benefit so reducing multiple claims. Employers could ask for them and pass details on to DSS so stopping people signing on and working. Harder for people to obtain multiple identities since will be linked to fingerprints. Stop people applying for credit in your name, giving your name when arrested or stopped for speeding etc.
If the DSS bit stops only a small percentage and illegal immigrants are reduced might even pay for itself. Most people will have to pay for their own cards after a while so it wouldn't cost that much.
Might not work but how much hassle will it really be to have one more card in your wallet??
If the DSS bit stops only a small percentage and illegal immigrants are reduced might even pay for itself. Most people will have to pay for their own cards after a while so it wouldn't cost that much.
Might not work but how much hassle will it really be to have one more card in your wallet??
26 July 2002, 11:03 PM
#20
slight problem with the Euro - it isn't just the currency, its all the tax harmonisation laws that go with it. So maybe fuel and ****/beer could be cheaper, your income tax and NI will go up to match the rest of it!
27 July 2002, 10:59 AM
#22
Scooby Senior
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 5,763
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
VinnyP!
"How ID cards might reduse crime"
>shops could insist on seeing them when paying by CC making it harder to use nicked cards.
So why not include a photograph on the credit card in the first place? Oh, and how will an ID card prevent fraud on the Internet or via phone purchases?
>Could be asked to see them when claiming benefit so reducing multiple claims.
Isn't that what the NI card/number is for? There are already plenty of ways of checking/confirming someones identity!
>Employers could ask for them and pass details on to DSS so stopping people signing on and working.
Most of such fraud is "cash in hand" work, where the employer wants to save on NI, insurance etc. I can't see "Dodgy Eric the Builder" shopping "Sneaky Simon the immigrant" 'cos he doesn't have an ID card!
>Harder for people to obtain multiple identities since will be linked to fingerprints.
It has still not been decided what information will be on an ID card (fingerprint, driving entitlements, retinal scans?), but the number of people in this country with "multiple identities" is minisule (or even less!).
>Stop people applying for credit in your name,
Only if the credit company take ID cards! You can obtain credit (plus 10% discount) at many high street stores because they want your money THEN. They don't want complications that may slow things up.
>giving your name when arrested or stopped for speeding etc.
Technically the law states that you MUST show your driving licence to an officer when requested. The 7 days (HORT1) was introduced because immediate production was not possible in practise. Oh, and it has not yet been decided whether an ID card will be compulsary to carry.
>If the DSS bit stops only a small percentage and illegal immigrants are reduced might even pay for itself.
Both these problems can be solved by conventional means. Why penalise the vast majority due to the incompetance of the authorities?
>Most people will have to pay for their own cards after a while so it wouldn't cost that much.
Thus yet another stealth tax - and it will still cost billions!
>Might not work but how much hassle will it really be to have one more card in your wallet??
It would be even less hassle to have an ID chip embedded in your body - do you want that (it makes sense you know!)?????
mb
"How ID cards might reduse crime"
>shops could insist on seeing them when paying by CC making it harder to use nicked cards.
So why not include a photograph on the credit card in the first place? Oh, and how will an ID card prevent fraud on the Internet or via phone purchases?
>Could be asked to see them when claiming benefit so reducing multiple claims.
Isn't that what the NI card/number is for? There are already plenty of ways of checking/confirming someones identity!
>Employers could ask for them and pass details on to DSS so stopping people signing on and working.
Most of such fraud is "cash in hand" work, where the employer wants to save on NI, insurance etc. I can't see "Dodgy Eric the Builder" shopping "Sneaky Simon the immigrant" 'cos he doesn't have an ID card!
>Harder for people to obtain multiple identities since will be linked to fingerprints.
It has still not been decided what information will be on an ID card (fingerprint, driving entitlements, retinal scans?), but the number of people in this country with "multiple identities" is minisule (or even less!).
>Stop people applying for credit in your name,
Only if the credit company take ID cards! You can obtain credit (plus 10% discount) at many high street stores because they want your money THEN. They don't want complications that may slow things up.
>giving your name when arrested or stopped for speeding etc.
Technically the law states that you MUST show your driving licence to an officer when requested. The 7 days (HORT1) was introduced because immediate production was not possible in practise. Oh, and it has not yet been decided whether an ID card will be compulsary to carry.
>If the DSS bit stops only a small percentage and illegal immigrants are reduced might even pay for itself.
Both these problems can be solved by conventional means. Why penalise the vast majority due to the incompetance of the authorities?
>Most people will have to pay for their own cards after a while so it wouldn't cost that much.
Thus yet another stealth tax - and it will still cost billions!
>Might not work but how much hassle will it really be to have one more card in your wallet??
It would be even less hassle to have an ID chip embedded in your body - do you want that (it makes sense you know!)?????
mb
27 July 2002, 12:08 PM
#23
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Scoobysport, Basildon, UK
Posts: 4,300
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No to ID cards. No tangible benefit, huge cost, will do nothing to stop crime. A bit like banning law abiding people from owning licensed hand guns in the hope that no one will get shot any more.
No, never, ever to the Euro. We decide our monetary affairs, not Brussels. Ireland had a booming economy until it joined the Euro. Currently Europe has raging inflation because the currency change has been "rounded up" everywhere and I have yet to meet one european citizen that now thinks it was a good thing. Sure it would be nice to have a stable exchange rate for my exports, but I don't want swinging tax and interest rates designed to slow our growth down to match the European average.
No, never, ever to the Euro. We decide our monetary affairs, not Brussels. Ireland had a booming economy until it joined the Euro. Currently Europe has raging inflation because the currency change has been "rounded up" everywhere and I have yet to meet one european citizen that now thinks it was a good thing. Sure it would be nice to have a stable exchange rate for my exports, but I don't want swinging tax and interest rates designed to slow our growth down to match the European average.
27 July 2002, 03:06 PM
#24
no and no
I dont think people realise the implications of tying 10's of countries currencies to one rate, if country Z has a problem and country ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXY doesnt, country Z is ****ed, end of story. The benefits do not outweigh the risks. Dont forget, this is forever!! It may suit us for 2-3 years, but forever is a bit longer term.
I dont think people realise the implications of tying 10's of countries currencies to one rate, if country Z has a problem and country ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXY doesnt, country Z is ****ed, end of story. The benefits do not outweigh the risks. Dont forget, this is forever!! It may suit us for 2-3 years, but forever is a bit longer term.
27 July 2002, 06:03 PM
#25
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
>So why not include a photograph on the credit card in the first place? Oh, and how will an ID card prevent fraud on the Internet or via phone purchases?
I didn't say it was the only way of doing things, you asked how an ID card could reduce crime. Person not present transactions are on the decline because vendors take more pains to establish ID first, not the case in stores. Photographs on CC don't work. Like signatures no one challenges people if they don't match. Bank of scotland head of security had a picture first of a woman then a Gorrila on his card for months no one challenged him! At least the ID card would have a name to check, could also be swiped at same time so the details of card could be compared at the CC Clearing centre against the card details recorded when the application was made.
>Isn't that what the NI card/number is for? There are already> plenty of ways of checking/confirming someones identity!
Not that are linked to fingerprints so I can get as many NI cards as I want. I know that it hasn't been established what details will be taken but all suggestions seem to include some form of Biometric test.
>Employers could ask for them and pass details on to DSS so stopping people signing on and working.
>Most of such fraud is "cash in hand" work, where the employer wants to save on NI, insurance etc. I can't see "Dodgy Eric the Builder" shopping "Sneaky Simon the immigrant" 'cos he doesn't have an ID card!
So it will only stop the non cash in hand work, wouldn't it help the DSS swoops on building sites etc?
>It has still not been decided what information will be on an ID card (fingerprint, driving entitlements, retinal scans?), but the number of people in this country with "multiple identities" is minisule.
More than you might think.......
>Only if the credit company take ID cards! You can obtain credit (plus 10% discount) at many high street stores because they want your money THEN. They don't want complications that may slow things up.
Credit companies already insist on proofs of ID they would just specify a swiped ID card as one of them. Wouldn't take any longer than the existing system.
>Technically the law states that you MUST show your driving licence to an officer when requested. The 7 days (HORT1) was introduced because immediate production was not possible in practise. Oh, and it has not yet been decided whether an ID card will be compulsary to carry.
I know if you had your ID card it might mean you don't have to produce at all or at least that no one else can give your name and address (assuming compulsion when driving at least).
>Both these problems can be solved by conventional means. Why penalise the vast majority due to the incompetance of the authorities?
I'm sure they have tried, if this has chance should it not be tried or do you like your tax money being wasted? How is it a penalty, I haven't addressed the individual benefits, just crime, all one has to do is get the card and carry it. Hardly a huge inconvenience. I have a work ID card I have to carry, hasn't caused me any great strife. I ahve to carry my driving licence when driving in many countries or my passport. I don't feel penalised, people in countries with mandatory ID cards don't seem that bothered. If it wasn't a deterrent to crime why is there such a trade in making forgeries in these countries?
>Most people will have to pay for their own cards after a while so it wouldn't cost that much.
>Thus yet another stealth tax
Tax is taking money for the govt. This is selling you something at cost.
>It would be even less hassle to have an ID chip embedded in your body - do you want that (it makes sense you know!)
Not for me I already have thousand of unique identifying characteristics that could be used instead, why add another one?
I didn't say it was the only way of doing things, you asked how an ID card could reduce crime. Person not present transactions are on the decline because vendors take more pains to establish ID first, not the case in stores. Photographs on CC don't work. Like signatures no one challenges people if they don't match. Bank of scotland head of security had a picture first of a woman then a Gorrila on his card for months no one challenged him! At least the ID card would have a name to check, could also be swiped at same time so the details of card could be compared at the CC Clearing centre against the card details recorded when the application was made.
>Isn't that what the NI card/number is for? There are already> plenty of ways of checking/confirming someones identity!
Not that are linked to fingerprints so I can get as many NI cards as I want. I know that it hasn't been established what details will be taken but all suggestions seem to include some form of Biometric test.
>Employers could ask for them and pass details on to DSS so stopping people signing on and working.
>Most of such fraud is "cash in hand" work, where the employer wants to save on NI, insurance etc. I can't see "Dodgy Eric the Builder" shopping "Sneaky Simon the immigrant" 'cos he doesn't have an ID card!
So it will only stop the non cash in hand work, wouldn't it help the DSS swoops on building sites etc?
>It has still not been decided what information will be on an ID card (fingerprint, driving entitlements, retinal scans?), but the number of people in this country with "multiple identities" is minisule.
More than you might think.......
>Only if the credit company take ID cards! You can obtain credit (plus 10% discount) at many high street stores because they want your money THEN. They don't want complications that may slow things up.
Credit companies already insist on proofs of ID they would just specify a swiped ID card as one of them. Wouldn't take any longer than the existing system.
>Technically the law states that you MUST show your driving licence to an officer when requested. The 7 days (HORT1) was introduced because immediate production was not possible in practise. Oh, and it has not yet been decided whether an ID card will be compulsary to carry.
I know if you had your ID card it might mean you don't have to produce at all or at least that no one else can give your name and address (assuming compulsion when driving at least).
>Both these problems can be solved by conventional means. Why penalise the vast majority due to the incompetance of the authorities?
I'm sure they have tried, if this has chance should it not be tried or do you like your tax money being wasted? How is it a penalty, I haven't addressed the individual benefits, just crime, all one has to do is get the card and carry it. Hardly a huge inconvenience. I have a work ID card I have to carry, hasn't caused me any great strife. I ahve to carry my driving licence when driving in many countries or my passport. I don't feel penalised, people in countries with mandatory ID cards don't seem that bothered. If it wasn't a deterrent to crime why is there such a trade in making forgeries in these countries?
>Most people will have to pay for their own cards after a while so it wouldn't cost that much.
>Thus yet another stealth tax
Tax is taking money for the govt. This is selling you something at cost.
>It would be even less hassle to have an ID chip embedded in your body - do you want that (it makes sense you know!)
Not for me I already have thousand of unique identifying characteristics that could be used instead, why add another one?
27 July 2002, 07:29 PM
#26
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Markyate.Imprezas owned:-wrx-sti5typeR-p1-uk22b-modded my00. Amongst others!
Posts: 8,541
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
John, theres 10 letters of the alphabet not 26 :P
I am on balance in favour on a single currency BTW
I am on balance in favour on a single currency BTW
28 July 2002, 09:45 AM
#27
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think we should all have an I.D card, we should also have a DNA sample , blood sample & finger prints taken this would reduce crime overnite. It would nail rapists, murderers & theives. There would be a lot less scum on the streets. Pepole who dodn't want this must have something to hide !!!!!!!!
28 July 2002, 01:49 PM
#28
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 678
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pepole who dodn't want this must have something to hide !!!!!!!!
28 July 2002, 04:39 PM
#29
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Where did this 2 or 3 Billion come from? I haven't seen these figures. There are approx 60 million people in the UK Not all are over 16, not all are citizens, very few could get a free card. These figures work out at well over £50 per card.
Like the idea of everyone giving fingerprints and DNA. Civil liberties groups argument is that the 'authorities' would illegally use this to monitor everyones movements. I've heard no other argument against it other than 'I don't like the sound of that'.
Like the idea of everyone giving fingerprints and DNA. Civil liberties groups argument is that the 'authorities' would illegally use this to monitor everyones movements. I've heard no other argument against it other than 'I don't like the sound of that'.
28 July 2002, 05:07 PM
#30
Scooby Senior
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 5,763
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
WRX Baker,
I think that you will find the police already have DNA, fingerprints and photographs of a great many criminals (as they will have arrested then many times before).
But the judicial system then lets us all down, and the crims walk free [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
mb
I think we should all have an I.D card, we should also have a DNA sample , blood sample & finger prints taken this would reduce crime overnite. It would nail rapists, murderers & theives. There would be a lot less scum on the streets. Pepole who dodn't want this must have something to hide !!!!!!!!
But the judicial system then lets us all down, and the crims walk free [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
mb