Edmondo

Here's a picture of Greece's finance minister at the London Conference of 1953, signing a treaty agreeing to cancel 50% of Germany's debt. Because it was the right thing to do.

Just posting it, you know, for no reason.

dpb

I reckon that this'll be what happens other way round but maybe 30%

fpan

iTrader: (11)

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Chucking good money after bad.

Until they sort out the 89.5% that are supposed to pay taxes, and don't, (Source: Greek government), they are fekked.

jonc

They're screwed until they start dishing out Drachmas.

Edmondo

Totally agree - they brought it on themselves and now cry foul cos they have to pay back the money they borrowed.....

jonc

The question is where exactly has the money gone? There's not thing to show for all the money that was given to Greece since joining the EU,...oh wait, they did host the Olympics....
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...les_money.html

warrenm2

This war story rubbish is getting tedious.
What war has Greece just fought that meant their cities were flattened, their industry destroyed, millions killed and half their country annexed?
It was not war it was financial mismanagement on an epic scale and they want to debt forgiveness without conditions so they can continue! There is no comparison to Germany after WW2.

Here is a quote from the BBC, as you can see they basically partied from 2001 no real hardship, no deaths, no destruction of property, no annexation by the USSR etc

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33407742

Critics point out that Greece's problems can be traced back to before it joined the euro in 2001, when it was living beyond its means.
After it adopted the single currency, public spending soared. Public sector wages, for example, rose 50% between 1999 and 2007 - far faster than in most other eurozone countries. The government also ran up big debts paying for the 2004 Athens Olympics.
After years of overspending, the country's budget deficit - the difference between spending and income - spiralled out of control.
Then, when the global financial downturn hit in 2008, and the cost of borrowing money from banks rose hugely, the country was ill-prepared to cope.
Debt levels reached the point where the country was no longer able to repay its loans, and was forced to ask for help from its European partners and the IMF in the form of massive loans.
The conditions attached to these loans have compounded Greece's woes - especially for ordinary people.
Greece's debt to GDP ratio is now the highest in Europe, running at 174% in the final quarter of 2014, according to Eurostat.

dpb

They got an invite to join the party, by someone!

Depends how much Germany and the rest want to prop up the dream of federalist state of europe where every country is as well off as it's partner

ScoobyWon't

They spent it on luxury motors from Germany.

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

That, and early retirement at 55 for virtually everybody in the country.

S204Darren

The place is a joke nobody pays taxes and they all want to put their feet up at 55! No wonder the place is fooked! Jokers

fpan

iTrader: (11)

The money went to the foreign (mostly German) construction companies that did the works for the Olympics (and not only), corrupt governments and politicians.

Watch this:

fpan

iTrader: (11)

Really? Check who works the most/least.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18144319

http://i100.independent.co.uk/articl...rs--xycGVDQ36g

"Greek workers have had a bad press recently but, as we reported in February, they work longer hours than any other Europeans . Their average of 2,017 hours a year puts them third in the international ranking, based on figures compiled by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD). "

How can you manage not to pay taxes when you are a PAYE?

There are a few cases of people retiring early but that is NOT the majority.

Watch the above documentary to open your eyes and stop stereotyping. A lot of things are wrong in Greece but it's not the average man that didn't give you a receipt when you bought something from a kiosk in the street that brought the country into this mess.

Do all e.g. builders/plumbers/you name it in this country pay their full taxes when getting paid in cash?

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

That is hilarious! Three of the four PIGS countries top the list of most hardworking?!

But it must be true, I mean Greece aren't known to make things up (*cough* euro acceptance criteria *cough*)

fpan

iTrader: (11)

Do you know why this happens?

Because unemployment is so high that employees get pressurised by their employers. Salaries have been cut by 1/3-1/2, you have to work longer without getting paid.

It is common being owed salaries for 6 months.

If you don't agree you are out and they can find someone else.
The ones who can are leaving the country.

Guys, if you haven't lived or worked in Greece stop repeating what the mainstream media wants you to believe.

Sheep!

hodgy0_2

the problem is "hardworking" is only one measure

"productivity" is really key here

and I suspect that's where they fall down

I have seen figures that suggest a German worker (although) he/she works less - is twice as productive as a Greek worker

We in the UK aren't much better, we have **** poor productivity

dpb

Sounds very familiar - from girlfriends relatives back in Zim,

Still , the government points to the huge numbers now in full time employment now

(mainly selling airtime scratch cards on the roadside )

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

I also read that Greece has one of the largest (in percentage terms at least) small business owners in its workforce, in the EU. Presumably that means long hours if you own your own business.

But it all just goes to show what bull***t such statistics are, there is no point in making the comparison.

Edit:
Page 4 of this doc is pretty amazing: http://www.cepr.net/documents/public...ss-2009-08.pdf and interestingly, Italy, Portugal, and Spain are at the top. It's a very close correlation.

This large number of self-employed also I'm sure goes some way to explaining why so little tax is collected.

fpan

iTrader: (11)

This doesn't explain why Greece's debt soared after 2009, did all self-employed people decide to stop paying taxes then?





This is the reason why the debt soared suddenly: http://www.reinform.nl/?p=1004

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

The figure I gave, of those eligible to pay taxes, 89.5% DO NOT, came from the Greek government.

Comparable figures for Germany was 2.3%.

There's something very fishy, sorry.

dpb

Is he a greaplogogist

fpan

iTrader: (11)

Have you actually watched the above documentary and read the link I posted? Which government gave those figures and do you think they would blame themselves?
People not paying correct taxes is a drop in the ocean compared with the money politicians have wasted/pocketed due to stupidity and corruption.

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

Greece has already had about 100bn euros wrote off in 2012, creditors must of thought part of the debt is better than nothing but it now looks like Greece is going for the nothing option.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Watched it, rejected it.

The figures were from 2014 from the then Greek government.....what other one is there?

Drop in the ocean? it's their main income, that's what tax is for......without it they are fekked.

fpan

iTrader: (11)

Before the write off the german and french banks sold their debt to Greece so guess who lost from it.

fpan

iTrader: (11)

Your choice to wear blinkers.

You haven't read http://www.reinform.nl/?p=1004 then obviously.

Otherwise, care to explain why the debt jumped from 120 in 2009 to 167 in 2011?

Did suddenly all freelancers decide to stop paying taxes?!

Coincidentally, the scandal with the CDSs started in 2009 when Greece suddenly ran out of money (until then although things were far from ideal it was manageable) and called IMF to "help".

The rest is history.

fpan

iTrader: (11)

Greece wanted to make its debt seem smaller than what it really was (as other European countries) in order to enter the euro (it should have never entered) but GS came up with the "How to" plan.

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

Are you implying GS is at fault rather than Greece?

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Errrrrrr, they took a loan?

I'm guessing you are Greek, so of course YOU want the debt written off and the status quo........then we can bung 'em ANOTHER €300 billion in three years' time?