c_maguire

As a responsible speeder (but not in built-up areas, Your Honour) who always keeps their vehicle in good fettle, I get somewhat tired of the constant speeding kills message peddled by the authorities and the ignorant. The way in which they tag every incident where speed is shown to be above the limit as an excess speed statistic irrespective of other factors involved, which are often the real reason for the incident. The truth is inappropriate speed may kill, but hey-ho who cares.

Check out the link. When this type of lazy, incompetent attitude to driving exists then what hope is there? Maybe priorities need to change.

https://uk.cars.yahoo.com/news/cars-...090500111.html

legb4rsk

Yes it's another myth perpetrated by the Government.It's the easiest way to collect tax.You try & put up a device that detects tyre pressure as you drive by.

Sometimes I walk across my local supermarket car park & I am amazed/shocked to see how many obviously bald tyres you can spot even with a casual glance.

If Parking wardens measured tyre pressure & tread depth they might be making a useful contribution to road saftey instead of just pi**ing everybody off..

Also have Police events where they have their little tent up in the car park & have gone round stickering up cars with illegal or wrongly inflated tyres.
All those mums in big people carriers & giant 4x4's who think they are safe might think again.

RA Dunk

I've always said there should be a basic maintenance test as part of doing a driving test, things like tyre pressures, oil levels, coolant levels, changing wheels etc etc.

Have a look at this if you want to see something scarey.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v...12&pnref=story

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Its a point - I crashed many years ago in a 60mph limit doing 40mph - on a relatively straight, but slightly off camber section of road.

Now I've driven down that road almost daily in various cars, come rain snow or sun. The only times I've been caught out are on the bends where I've met a muppet in the opposite direction doing a overtake, so had to brake whilst cornering with obvious issues (didn't crash though ), and on the sole occasion when I took the bends at 60mph like I've done many times and the back end went big style (again didn't crash)...I later found out I had a flat back tyre (new tyres too ).

So why did I crash on the straight bit tottering along at 40mph when I've done up to 100mph on that very same stretch? The Jag does a amusing rear end waggle at WOT 70mph as it shifts from 1st to 2nd gear, and it just powers on with barely any correction required - that's the only car I can get to misbehave on that stretch, and its probably down to the rear subframe bushings getting tired (hence why I am a restoring a complete front and rear subframe/suspension assembly ready to swap to make it handle better than new). Scoobs, Cossies, 911s, NSX, Bentleys, all fast high powered weapons and not one issue. My uncle has the same account and the only car he got into serious trouble there was a XR4i (the RWD version) which had just been re-shelled, so probably needed the geometry tweeking, and he was by his own admission motoring well past the speed limit.

I can only put it down to having a flat or partially deflated rear tyre. And traveling at 40mph meant I wasn't as alert as I would have been if pressing on, so I was caught off guard. I still think I would have whacked the curb pretty hard if I did react quicker. The car had no tyre pressure monitoring and rubber-band tyres so its quite easy to have 10psi in a tyre and it look fully inflated.

But hey-ho...after that accident, they reduced the limit from 60mph to 40mph. Which would have made zero difference in my case....and guess what? They also added a camera on the one straight and some red tarmac....Yet people still spin and crash off the bends into the fields on a bi-monthly basis. What a waste of tax payer's money.

The only thing that speed would be an issue is if it made the difference in avoiding an accident. It didn't. Maybe if I did 20mph, but that's bordering on silly. We can't all drive at 20mph everywhere "just incase".

Much like the advert saying hit a child at 20mph means they won't die. Bollox....They may not be dead on the spot, but they'll have severe life threatening injuries that if not treated quick enough will affect the rest of their life (assuming they survive). Maybe if they hit a French Ncap car designed to hit people with and "scoop" a child up onto the bonnet and just break their legs instead (308, latest Clio etc)....but a pick truck like a L200 or Navarra will just whack their head on the bumper turning them into a cabbage. So on that premise, we really should ban SUVs, trucks/HGVs, and 4x4 pick ups. Or a better idea....better pedestrian/child road awareness? Although I have no problem with banning mummies from driving SUVs and double-cab pickups, they're a menace to everyone.

Carnut

There is, maybe not changing a tyre but that's not a safety issue, as long as you know its not safe to drive.

Anywho, speed doesn't kill, it's the stopping that kills.

Joking aside, l would be willing to bet that the vast majority of crashes are driver error rather than car neglect.

fat-thomas

iTrader: (4)

speeding doesnt kill, crashing into things does.

c_maguire

All the vehicles I own handle/stop/go better or equal to what they did when new and I regularly make visible checks on tyre condition/pressure, pad wear/disc condition and fluid levels.
I don't like to hang about so want to ensure there is no psychological/real reason for the car/bike to slow me down.
On the rare occasions that I drive/ride someone else's vehicle there is nearly always some 'issue' that I would never put up with, which ranges from irritating (e.g. pulling to one side when braking) to potentially dangerous (like 10 psi in a tyre). The only reason these people get away with it (physically) is because they drive so slow, and (legally) because the MOT is not due.

Perhaps VOSA should carry out more roadside checks with powers of enforcement. There are probably many thousands of vehicles (many perhaps not that old) that should be given rectification notices and not used until fixed.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I think traffic wardens, sorry "parking attendants" (or whatever they call them these days) should be given these powers during their rounds. The MOT system being electronic means they can quite easily void a current MOT if they find a vehicle to be unroadworthy. Like torn front wiper blades, bald/flat/damaged tyres, defective lights etc.


...and those pesky WRXs with decatted Nur Spec-R exhausts < runs and hides >

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Don't forget there is also a nice little sideline in dodgy MOTs. How many cars are running around with an MOT certificate that was acquired without the vehicle going anywhere near a testing station?

Carnut

You have got to be kidding right, traffic wardens on power trips. Just have the M.O.T every 6 months.


Plus is SN trying to excuse speeding or am I misunderstanding? Yeah people not looking after their cars can be adding to accidents but I bet MOST RTAs are driver error, not the car failing through neglect.
http://www.rospa.com/faqs/detail.aspx?faq=298

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Every SIX months?????????

We are already out of sync with the rest of Europe, having taken the Tory's word that, if we agreed to a stricter test like they have, it would be every two years...like theirs is.

Now we have the stricter test..every year

Carnut

What do you think would be best?
I said 6 months as a alternative to traffic wardens doing walk rounds of peoples cars. IMO just leave it be, cars are only getting better, maybe tighten some of the rules on tyres and breaks at MOT time....not sure.

warrenm2

If speed kills, then the fastest roads will have the highest fatality rate, like motorways.... oh wait...

Martin2005

Somebody tell Warren why that analysis is a load of nonsense

c_maguire

I expect most incidents (I hate the word 'accident' because it suggests unavoidability) involve driver error followed by vehicle condition, with speed some way further down the list.
I take it you take umbrage at anyone who exceeds what is an arbitrary speed limit, and will always fall back on the 'you broke the law' statement.

I'm not keen on the traffic warden suggestion but VOSA checks, backed up by fines, carried out at Services/supermarkets etc would after a time (when drivers realised they could be checked at any time) definitely mean there would be an attitude change as regards vehicle condition. And this would be a change difficult for anyone to argue against (unlike speeding). Nice money earner for UK Plc also.

c_maguire

Why don't you tell him, bearing in mind they have the highest speeds and the highest volume of traffic.

Maybe it's all the cameras.

Martin2005

How many T Junctions, pedestrians, roundabouts, ON COMMING TRAFFIC etc is there on a motorway?
Motorway driving is relatively safe because everyone is heading in the same direction. Therefore actual collision speeds are much much lower than on rural roads (by far the most dangerous roads). It quite difficult to have a 'head on, collision on a motorway.

I'm all in favour of increasing motorway speed limits.

dpb

No question if the car has defects it will only compound ability to stop in time

But going too fast for a particular road section is more than likely going to be the biggest factor otherwise

.....

Except of course with scoobynet members ,since we're all driving gods

c_maguire

It's not all about stopping though is it?
How about the vehicle that loses control after entering a corner on a single carriageway rural road at 50mph where a 60mph limit exists? If that car has worn ball joints and an under-inflated rear tyre, is this crash driver error, faulty car, excessive speed or a combination of two or more of them?
It'll no doubt get categorized as inappropriate speed but is more accurately a combination of driver error (the driver controls the throttle) and vehicle condition. It's all too easy to blame speed for everything.

dpb

Well thats clearly not speeding is it

Its driver negligence

c_maguire

What percentage of these rural incidents are single vehicle only though, thereby negating the influence of other vehicles?

My experience (and I've spent the last 25 years driving for work on all types of roads) tells me most Motorway incidents are rear-enders involving two or more vehicles whereas most rural incidents involve one vehicle.
Certain A-roads are the ones where T-junctions and side roads come into play, and these are very likely to be driver error in most cases (if you look properly before pulling out you will see another vehicle coming, whatever the speed).

c_maguire

50 might be too fast in any event, with a driving god in his WRX, I'd have to see the corner for myself, but that's where knowing your and your vehicle's limits come in.

As for vehicle condition, where does ignorance stop and negligence start?
And is ignorance an excuse (it appears to be at this time, in that provided a valid MOT exists then most drivers give their vehicle no attention other than putting fuel in it and occasionally getting some Eastern Europeans to wash it).

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Always makes me laugh when people put "Lady Owner" or "One Lady Owner" in car sales adds as though it's a good thing. It always puts me right off as all the women I have ever known never check the oil, wear brakes and tyres to the bone and would only stop to take a look when the car refuses to go any further.

The car in the link being the perfect example.

Personally I steer well clear of any car owned by a woman.

Sorry Ladies.

c_maguire

Mate of mine bought a Golf once that was used to go to the supermarket and pick the kids up from school. It didn't even make it the 10 miles back to his house before the big-ends went. I asked him if he'd been ragging it and the journey was Motorway all the way. Said he didn't do more than 70.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Inappropriate speed is the problem, everyone speeds or has sped during their driving career, it's just one of those facts of life, accidents happen when one of the many variables comes into play.

However incorrect maintenance does play it's part, an incorrectly inflated tyre does have a great deal of influence on a cars handling when the **** hits the fan, whether that be understeer (front) or a tank slapper (rear). Much like the OP I always make sure my vehicles are "Tip Top" Good brakes and quality tyres are an absolute must, which is something that I think is lost on a lot of people in this age of computer aided driving, they should try driving some of the rear wheel drive sh1tboxes with wafer thin mis-matched plastic cross ply tyres and almost none existent brakes I was driving around in some 30yrs ago on cobbled streets in the wet Brings new meaning to the term "skid marks"

Personally I like a spirited drive now and again but always chose my moments and locations carefully and when conditions allow, I never speed during normal daily driving where there's lots of traffic, bar the odd traffic light GP to get ahead of the dawdlers I'm pretty much a saint on the road these days.

I'm not prepared to discuss some of the things I got up to in my yoof though.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Oil was probably full of fuel, if there was any oil in it that is.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Unfortunately its true:

Gaffer at the factory next door has a daughter with a BMW: We only see it for MOTs and when it breaks down (usually catastrophically). And when that happens, we find the run flat tyres have worn THROUGH the carcass and burst, and the pads are on the metal. I've lost count the times this has happened - the dash is is constantly lit with warnings - tyre pressures, service due, brakes worn, brake luid low , oil low, washer bottle low etc.

Another case is a teenager who threw a strop at her mum because her car wasn't safe to drive and she couldn't borrow her mum's car. The fact the car was unsafe to drive escaped her - I could hand the keys over and she'd be happy to drive to wherever she wanted to go.

And the Audi A6 that I only ever saw whenever it wouldn't start or go above 30mph. Always said "service now" on the dash and never had any petrol in it. I just assumed it had the oil changed on the cheap or DIY and the reminder hasn't been reset. After finding the latest problem was oil related (timing chains - engine out job), I investigated and found the service data held in the instrument ECU was reporting that it was overdue by 70,000miles and roughly 5years. Assuming it was incorrect I asked when it last had the oil changed, not since they bought it about 5 years ago was the answer When faced with the quote to fix it they said they'll sell the car instead....that means some poor mug is going to buy it not realising what its going to cost to properly fix it.

Its the mums and the young drivers that are the worst. The older (60s+) women are usually ok. Man-eaters most of them, with plenty of bite should you cross them wrong, their cars generally show battle scars from curbs and car parks, but usually they are maintained.

Carnut

I think this could be where we may differ. l consider speeding as someone going too fast for the conditions and their ability. Not giving themselves enough time at a T junction could possibly fall into this category, racing round Tesco car park, dodging about weaving through traffic, GOING TOO FAST.
The speed limit is just that, a limit, if you give yourself plenty of space and choose a speed that best suits your ability you should be fine(ish).

I'm not preaching here, im no Saint at times on the road.

warrenm2

So back to the motorways.... they are the safest roads, AND the fastest roads, demonstrating the phrase "speed kills" is false. Slower roads are more deadly, yes because of other factors, which again proves the "speed kills" saying is in fact dangerous itself as it ignores other factors that are more important e.g road conditions, car maintenance, road layout and markings, junctions, other drivers, car positioning, sight lines, judgement and anticipation of others etc etc etc. Anyone who trots out "speed kills" knows nothing about safe driving

dpb

So you don't think road designers take that lot into account when producing the speed limit ?