robin ledger

When should a Mod be declared to the insurance people?

I was getting quotes for my scoob and explained that I had a ScoobySport BB - and the woman said "oh yes, so it had a modified exhaust". So, does this mean that *any* mods to the exhaust come under the same classification? In other words, if I now changed to a full de-cat system I would de subject to the same loading as for just a different Back Box?

Equally, I am going to fit a Vent to Atmos DV and someone told me there is no need to declare it as the car already has a DV as standard. Is this correct? Could this argument be extended to include brake upgrades, spoilers and induction kits??

Finally, I have changed the revolting 15" alloys with 16" STi alloys which are standard Subaru items. Should these be declared.

Comments info and / or experiences would be appreciated.

Cheers

Jolly Green Monster 2

I believe you are suppose to declare everything..

Including the dump valve and the wheels as they were not fitted to the car as standard...

I believe there is a thresh hold which certain mods are below for each type of modification.. so you might pay x amount for backbox but the same amount for backbox and air filter and wheels.

Some people don't declare items and you risk facing the conciquence of non-payment on a claim... although I think it is related.. if you didn;t declare an exhaust mod and then reversed into a tree it is obvious that the exhaust had no effect on the accident..

robin ledger

What about the 'it was on there when I bought it and didn't realise' argument?

LeighJ

Robin,

Declare everything - how p1ssed off would yuo be if somthing when wrong and they wouldn't pay out. I told my compnay about my SS backbox, no increase in price, but it was added to my policy.

They'll do all they can not to pay, don't give them an excuse.

Leigh

bioforger

iTrader: (1)

From my experience insurers dont tend to know what mods on a car are not standard anyway, if they arent blatantly obvious. I had a full magnex zorst with a subtle pipe, subtle lowering and lots of engine mods on a 1.9GTI, not declared, the insurer didnt pickup on any of the mods at all when it got written off in a stack, and I got the full market price back. I guess it depends on the insurer and also the engineers knowledge of mods.

Markus

You should declare everything. As far as I'm aware insurance companies consider, "anything that changes the car from the manufacturers standard model" to be a modification. Obviously adding a magic tree air freshener won't require you to tell the ins co, but changing the exhaust, adding an induction kit, new wheels, etc.. you should tell them. Ok they might sting you, but in the long run it will be worth it.

imagine that you mod the car and get it to where you want it to be, then some **** nicks it, smashes it, whatever, and then you claim, but you did not tell the insurance company about the mods, they'll turn round and not pay up, and that won't be a pleasant experience. As many know, most (not all) insurance companies will try *everything* to wriggle out of paying out, and if you have mods they don't know about they *will* use this to avoid paying out.

My car, when I got it was modified, and I've modded it quite a bit since, and it's not cost me that much, in fact, the morretes, downpipe, new wheels, new brakes, and dumpvalve have not cost anything to add on, this might be due to a loading on the policy due to it being a modded jap import, and I dread to think what renewall will be, but at least I'm covered if anything does occur.

in short, a) find an insurance company sympathetic to mods, and b) declare all mods.

bioforger

iTrader: (1)

oh christ I know I wouldnt condone doing this, I was sh1tting myself waiting for the insurer to get back to me. And I wouldnt even consider doing it with my Scoob now as its worth so much more than a pug205

robin ledger

Markus,

This is what I think too. When it comes to it they will use anything as a reason not to pay out - they are not your mates!!

So, which brings me on to the next question... Who are these insurance companies that are sympathetic to mods?

cheers,


R.

banshi

Just my opinion, but if you change the spec of the car and don't declare it you provide an opportunity for a disputed claim.

My view is that bouncing/losing the car would be bad enough without the worry of arguing with insurers about the legitimacy of the claim.

Can't speak for your underwriter, but my policy states "brake modifications, exhaust modifications". No additional details were requested so I am in theory at liberty to swap em for anything I choose, so long as I don't revert to standard!

If the worst happens I don't suppose an inspector would notice a dump valve, but as it's not an equivalent replacement it could invalidate your insurance.

Whilst an ombudsman may be sympathetic on a dump valve. I wouldn't expect a favourable response on induction kits and brake upgrades. Or for items which make the car "more desirable" e.g. spoilers, PIAA lights, top of the range audio, (16" wheels?)

LeighJ

I use Norwich, don't work for them blah blah.

robin ledger

Brav,

Agreed, but the people here with massivly modified cars, such as...

Closed deck block
Uprated headgaskets
Lowered Compression
APS FMIC
APS Induction
Steel Crank
Arrow Rods
Cossie Pistons
Flowed and Ported heads
550cc Injectors
Uprated fuel pump
Turbo Dynamics MD195 turbo
BPM/AVO large inlet
HKS SQV
Venturi up pipe
Ported headers
BPM Twin Dump DP
HKS Hiper TT
Gems fully programmable Replacement ECU

...you know who you are!! How the hell do they get insurance at all? Is just a question of paying through the nose, or are there genuinely sympathetic insurance companies out there?

(that's why I'm confused)

sillysi

I use Privilege and they work it on a percentage peformance increase. i.e. Had a Prodrive Backbox fitted which increased power by 2.5% I had to pay £200 extra on policy. I can increase power upto 15% before I have to pay any more.

DJ Dunk

iTrader: (5)

BTW, mine was an additional £10 per month thats an extra £360 over the year for 3 pretty standard mods [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

Won't be using them again next year [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] NUD, BTW [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

robin ledger

Dunk,

that's a rip...no doubt.

What about these monster Scoobs though? Who insures them?

robin ledger

ok ok, I've started a new thread in the Insurance forum.

Tiggs

if you have lowered your car (for example) and it gets nicked and crashed do you really think the insurance wont pay out if they didnt know about the springs???????

last car i wrote off was looked over for about 2mins by a bloke in a suit- it could have been modded to the eyeballs and he would never have known.

THIS DOES NOT MEAN DONT DECLARE- but all this "they will do anything not to pay" stuff- anyone ever had this happen cause my experience is the opposite.

any insurance inspectors here? u boys ever check a cars down pipe to see if its standard after a shunt, you measure the wheel arch gap to see if its lowered???

im interested!

Tiggs

Markus

for the record, I've not got a massivly modded motor but it's not standard, here's a quick spec sheet for it.

MY94 WRX Wagon
Forge Vent to Atmosphere dumpvalve
HKS 'green mushroom' induction kit
BPM Twindump downpipe
Apexi N1 center section and backbox
Bridgestone Damper for Street Limited Edition Suspensions
Cuso front struct brace
Morrete quad headlamps
MY01 17 inch alloy wheels
movit 4m6 Porsche GT3 front brakes (well, will be once they are fitted!)

Who am I with? Schofields (thanks Tom)

I'm 27 with 4 or 5 yrs NCD, car has cat 1 alarm/immob and NavTrak Proactive tracker.

current premium is £1400

which aint bad, considering what I've done to it.

robin ledger

Tiggs,

Me too, who else has had a claim and witnessed the inspection?

Do they scrutinise known performance cars more?

R.

robin ledger

Markus,

£27 a week. About £4 a day. Three times what I'm paying at the moment.

Jeez.

Boost II

iTrader: (1)

I'm still confused....

-UNDERSTOOD - Insurance companies want to know if you do anything to the car which will make it more likely to be stolen or crashed.

-UNDERSTOOD - I may want my insurance company to know about mods I have spent money on so they reimburse the costs of them in a claim.

-NOT UNDERSTOOD - What is the situation with me using non standard manufacturers parts to replace bits already on the car? If I replaced standard Impreza back box with a Scoobysport version I would tell the insurance company I had modified the car. However if I got a cheap generic backbox fitted to my beaten up old Escort 1.6L at Kwikfit instead of getting an original Ford part, I would not consider this a modification and not declare it. Same with brake discs etc. What exactly is the difference here

robin ledger

Boost, Bravo,

This really does seem to be a grey area. On the face of it, it should be obvious - declare everything, be safe.

But then in the event of a shunt, the insurance assessor just gives the car a quick 'once over'(a bit like house 'surveys'). So, if they're not interesred themselves what's the point of telling them in the first place? (other than to be relieved of cash).

And what about mods like better brakes? Surely it makes the car safer, therefore you sould not be penalised? etc...

seejay555

How we wish Search was up and working!
How's about the legal perspective? The contract you enter into with an insurance company is a funny sort of contract. It's a contract "of the utmost good faith" (as all insurance contracts are). That means you have to tell an insurance company anything and everything that they might find important in assessing you as a risk. You have to tell them stuff even if they don't always ask for it! So, the answer is, if you want to be sure you are covered, you tell them everything that you have done/are doing to your car and let them decide what effect that has on the premium. If you don't tell them the contract isn't automatically null but the insurance company can use the non-disclosure to "avoid" the policy if they want to. The rest of the discussion depends surely on the risk you want to run as an individual - don't tell them about mods cos the policy is cheaper, hope you don't have an incident and, if you do, hope the insurance assessor sent to exaimine your car doesn't look too closely. I suppose it also depends on the value of your car. Me, I'd tell them and pay up, that way I know I'm covered. Same with track days really - I would want to know I'm covered if I ever get round to doing one.
That's my two penneth

stu200

iTrader: (1)

For info, when the assessor was going over the remains of my Nissan, we had a discussion over the merits and appeal of items such as performance exhausts, lowering springs, uprated brakes and ... ahem traction control. We even got to discussing the fact that Nissan would want 1300 quid for a new intercooler, but I could get a third-party FMIC for half that.

He knew what he was looking at and I have no doubt that if there'd been anything non-standard on the car, it would have come up in our conversation.

Having been in "the industry" a while back, I know that this chap was more clued up than is the norm, but the key thing here is that I was insured with Tesco.

Don't assume that just because the sell carrots and bog roll for a living, they don't also have people who kow about cars.

DJ Dunk

iTrader: (5)

Should be in "Insurance" but . . . .

I enquired about 16" alloys, spoiler & backbox and my insurer wanted and extra £10 for each per month (Sport) Even though the spolier and wheels can be found as standard on the Sport Special

[Edited by DJ Dunk - 3/4/2002 4:31:00 PM]

robin ledger

Bio,

You were a lucky man!

I agree that it's my responsibility etc, but if a part is replaced by another equivalant part, what's the problem? Surely you are just inviting them to take your money - if you declare every little thing?

[Edited by robin ledger - 3/4/2002 3:51:26 PM]

juan

they WILL stitch you if you haven't declared your mods and they find out

you have to declare all. They usually work out performance mods by assuming a max of 10% increase in cars performance etc. per various mods, so you can say exhaust and airfilter modded upped power by about 10%. Most ins companies know booger all and some little ****** on the end of the phone might say, well that doesn't seem right even when they don't know what the juice they're talking about (yes I had one ;-) ), then they start moaning about wanting proof of power differences etc. Then its time to find a different insurance co.

I guess they do wheels and cosmetic mods as a percentage increase in cars value rather than performance. There seems to be a real range of charges. some companies charge a tenner extra per mod, some 100quid.

Whatever they charge its not worth not declaring them unless you don't mind risking a zero payout if it all goes Pete Tong

[Edited by juan - 3/4/2002 4:24:43 PM]