john banks

Need your help guys please for "the wife's" car a 406 V6 just acquired.

I already have Infinity 605CS 6.5" comps in my Impreza and they are cheap & sound great, but really need >100WRMS to drive well. However, the bass is so good from them I am certain I won't need a sub, esp. in the much quieter 406 V6. I have some Kenwood HQ167DB 6.5" coax that I am going to put in the back shelf. In the Impreza when I did this and ran them at the same level as the Infinitys they were much louder.... quoted sensitivity 93dB/W/m - it sounded rubbish with all the volume at the back, so I put them off the headunit and used my 4 channel to bridge the Infinitys at the front. Hence the Kenwoods are now spare since I hardly know they are there with all the volume at the front and a deathly loud sub. Infinity quote 92dB at 2.83V (which is actually TWO watts - therefore true sens. is 89dB/W). Anyone any ideas of some 6.5" comps that are as good as the Infinity for quality but won't be drowned out by the Kenwoods at the back of the car if run at the same power - therefore 92dB at ONE watt and ONE metre or better. Ideally I want to get a 150WRMS/channel amp at 2ohm and run the front and rears in parallel so that wiring is easy and the amp is small so it will fit under the passenger seat - in this car I don't want the boot to be taken over like my last install. Of course, the speakers must be able to take rated power of at least 50WRMS too. The only one I can come up with is Kenwood KFCPSR70P - their cheaper coax variant had a bronze award in InCars... All the Infinity/MB Quart/Pioneer etc seem to have either low sensitivity or low power ratings.

Also, since I want to keep the factory head unit & autochanger and remote (Clarion - sounds good, just not very loud) I need a suitable amp that would take speaker level inputs, sound reasonable, fit under a seat. Either it needs to have an intelligent on/off with no need for a power switch from the headunit, or I need ideas of where to source the remote on/off wire from the head unit or otherwise in a 406. It does not have an electic aerial so that idea is out I'm afraid.

Thanks all again, John.

Oh, another option is to put the Kenwood HQ167DB in the front of the Pug but make them into components - the tweeters are on a stalk and could be "removed" and their capacitor taken with them. Could then amp them only and leave the standard speakers in the rear. Or I could just disconnect the tweeter and use the factory ones in the dash - but I'm sure I'd fry them if I attached a decent amplifier to them.

rockin'Ru

Hi John!Haven't been here in a while.
Do you mean the KFCP703 comp set?I haven't heard them but they "read" ok.
The Polk EX2560 set also features a rating of 92 dbl's.I have heard them,but not in a car.The Pioneers WILL take over 50 watts rms.This I've seen first hand.But for sq,I'd go Infinity first.
As for an amp,check out the Sony EXQ series of amps.They're nice.Not thrashing units,but the dual 5 band eq(front and rear)would allow you tremendous tuning options.It has speaker level inputs,and for the remote,you could wire it right to the fuse block of the car.Yes the amp will be on even if the radio isn't.
I myself need to do more research on these new intelligent on/off amps.I know many brands are starting to use this.
Sorry I couldn't help more John,but I'm still learning too.

Steve

john banks

Thanks Steve. In fact I have taken the Kenwood 6.5" coax from the back of the Impreza (I don't notice they've gone) and put them in the front of the 406, and some Kenwood 6x9 to go in the back. I am using a Lightning Audio 2 channel amp and it sounds OK, but agreed nothing like the Infinitys in the Impreza. At the moment I think I need to disconnect the coax's tweeters and reverse the connections on the factory tweeters to get it in phase. Also need to redo my MDF spacers in the front as they are leaking (too thin MDF used). A little disappointed with SQ overall - it doesn't help that I am only running tape or radio at present until I get the replacement CD magazine for the changer - I forgot how rubbish radio and tape sound. I tried speaker level inputs, but got horrendous interference. Now using a converter to go from speaker level to phono and it is noise free, but the bass is a little muddy - again source material I think. I am going to consider replacement tweeters for the dash, and try again speaker level inputs with different wire routing - I think it will sound good when I get CDs going and a nice clear connection from the headunit with well plumbed in fronts and nice tweets. As an experiment I might see what the Kenwood headunit from the Scoob sounds like through it - although then I suspect I will be buying a new headunit and CD changer! It's interesting to note how difficult it was to take the Peugeot apart compared with the Scooby - much more difficult. Tons of sound-deadening - 2 inches of foam everywhere it seems, but screwed together very well. A coat hanger has become my best friend. My wife still looks horrified when I bring in seats and numerous trim panels from outside

BTW I am using the "Accessory" cable from the back of the headunit - it turns on when the ignition is in position I or higher and works well.

rockin'Ru

LOL! My wife still has her doubts with me too,even after 12 years! "But Baby" just doesn't hold water I guess.
As for the sq;John,you seem to be quite an audiophile and you should listen to that little voice wayyy in the back of your mind saying "This is pointless!Junk it!I'll start from scratch.Better yet,I'll give her my system to justify me getting new stuff! )
I just hate to think of you spending money and time trying to achieve what you have in the Scoob with a factory head unit.Ain't gonna happen.But that also depends on what the wife is satisfied with.
I just installed a Pioneer 3300 ($160 US)in my sisters 2000 Dodge Intrepid (who,buy the way,is now an RN).I almost like it better than my older 7000.They've improved the features.One set of pre outs.You can control the tone front/rear individualy.Nice.Plus a few other goodys.
And the speakers...just look at your Infinity comps and the Kenwood coax.Both have a woofer and a tweeter.But look at what separates those two drivers.One little capacitor on the Kenwoods vs a complete network on the Infinitys...that little voice getting louder?
Sorry John,I know it's easy for someone to just up and say "yeah,buy that!It's tha *****!" I consider myself an authority on junk because I've tried most of it in an attempt to save a buck and it either didn't hold up or sounded rubbish.If only I had all that money back today...but I learned a great deal in the process.
Keep me informed John!

Steve

chiark

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by rockin'Ru:
<B>Better yet,I'll give her my system to justify me getting new stuff! )
[/quote]

I can recommend this approach: Kenwood 860 minidisc unit into the wife's car while I was waiting for the Scooby to arrive, then when it arrived... Kenwood PS970 "performance series" unit

She wouldn't let me have the old one back. Hook, line, sinker, line, rod and fisherman.

john banks

Well guys, it is sounding better since I got all the polarities correct. However, I am waiting to try the CD before I judge. However, I took the house CD player out to the boot last night and plugged it into the amp. It sounds rather nice - using factory tweets on the dash. I figure a new headunit might sound like that also.... But then I would need new remote, CD changer etc etc. I didn't realise that Lightning is another brand of Rockford Fosgate a bit like Infinity and Harmann Kardon. Amp seems good. Tomorrow I redo the MDF spacers for the fronts, and apply some stick on black carpet to my MDF "creation" (amp mount) in the boot. See my separate post in the ongoing noise thread also... The only thing is if I replaced the fronts with 605cs they would be drowned out by the rear 6x9 which sound ace but are almost too efficient. I have no fading control since I am deliberately using a small sized 2 channel amp at 2 ohms for packing reasons.

[This message has been edited by john banks (edited 07 June 2001).]

Scooby Doc

John

Question is, why spend money on a 406 v6 for the wife when the money could have been put to good use on your stereo?

Martin

john banks

It would've been rude not too it was so cheap, and the Fiesta and Scoob were a bit irritating for long journeys. It is actually a fabulous drive in a very different way to the Scoob, but still very fast but with build quality, refinement and ride quality! Can't quite take roundabouts at the same speed though

Levels now set, ground loop isolated (couldn't shift it any other way) and all MDF thingies done, and CD changer now operational. It sounds very nice for £250 expenditure, but then I get in the Scoob and turn on the system and it sounds incredible! However, I think the main deficiency is the front speakers in the Pug - I am also still on factory tweeters. Thought about just adding proper tweets, but they are approaching the price of a set of comps. I think I might get the Kenwood KFCPSR70P DualMags comps as mentioned above as they have a genuine 93dB/W sensitivity - the Infinitys wouldn't cut it and I'd need a shed load of extra amp power to run them.

Have to say that I am amazed by these Kenwood 6x9 - they hit incredibly on the bass - just as good as many subs.

john banks

Got some Kenwood comps - one model below the ones I mentioned and the whole thing works very nicely. I put a 1ohm 10W resistor in series with the rear 6x9 and it quietens them down just by the right amount