Anyone got ICE recommendations?
21 December 1999, 01:31 PM
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I am about to take delivery of a shiny new V5 Type-R!! But there's no way I can put up with no ICE for too long! 
Now, I know next to nothing when it comes to ICE. Although I feel that I'd be confident enough to install myself. What I really need are some recommendations from you (those in the know) as to what kit I should buy!!
I'm pretty sold on the new Pioneer Mini Disc head unit, with 6 disc autochanger in the boot for the CD's. So that's sorted!! Don't try to move me on that!
What I want to know is whether a decent set of components in the front and a Sub in the boot will suffice! Do I need a speakers on the parcel shelf?
The new Pioneer amps look really nice, and I think a couple of those would fit in the boot just fine (one to drive the Sub the other to drive the fronts/rears if required) so the amps are sorted also!!
So tell me, what are good speakers to have in the doors? Are Infinity Kappa 60.1's any good and will they slot right in?
If I need rears, can you recommend anything in particular.
Any help would be very much appreciated by this ICE novice. Budget is something around 1500 - 1800.
Now, I know next to nothing when it comes to ICE. Although I feel that I'd be confident enough to install myself. What I really need are some recommendations from you (those in the know) as to what kit I should buy!!
I'm pretty sold on the new Pioneer Mini Disc head unit, with 6 disc autochanger in the boot for the CD's. So that's sorted!! Don't try to move me on that!
What I want to know is whether a decent set of components in the front and a Sub in the boot will suffice! Do I need a speakers on the parcel shelf?
The new Pioneer amps look really nice, and I think a couple of those would fit in the boot just fine (one to drive the Sub the other to drive the fronts/rears if required) so the amps are sorted also!!
So tell me, what are good speakers to have in the doors? Are Infinity Kappa 60.1's any good and will they slot right in?
If I need rears, can you recommend anything in particular.
Any help would be very much appreciated by this ICE novice. Budget is something around 1500 - 1800.
21 December 1999, 02:42 PM
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all depends on whether you are prepared to cut-n-shape the doors a bit to get in large speakers.
mail me offline if you like, the only advice I could give at this stage would be to invest as much as possible in a pair of front components, sub, amps and decent head unit. Achievable on your budget.
mail me offline if you like, the only advice I could give at this stage would be to invest as much as possible in a pair of front components, sub, amps and decent head unit. Achievable on your budget.
21 December 1999, 08:27 PM
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I'm still on the quest for decent ICE in a v5-Type R.
Took mine down to the local installers and they reckoned subs in the boot would be no good as the sound can't get through (no folding seats etc.). If you find or hear any different please let me know!
Dave
Took mine down to the local installers and they reckoned subs in the boot would be no good as the sound can't get through (no folding seats etc.). If you find or hear any different please let me know!
Dave
21 December 1999, 09:43 PM
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thats rubbish.
does that imply that us with folding seats drive around with them down ?
I think not.
maybe there is a slight decrease in volume but I doubt it.
find a decent company.
does that imply that us with folding seats drive around with them down ?
I think not.
maybe there is a slight decrease in volume but I doubt it.
find a decent company.
21 December 1999, 11:56 PM
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I have folding seats in my car, but I have had a thick piece of MDF installed to cover the hole, and had the amps mounted to it.
If anything, there is more of an obstruction now in my car, then in any standard car without folding seats! I can hear and feel the bass just fine through it all!
I agree with Lee, find another installer! There is almost nothing that can't be done!
Regards
Andy
If anything, there is more of an obstruction now in my car, then in any standard car without folding seats! I can hear and feel the bass just fine through it all!
I agree with Lee, find another installer! There is almost nothing that can't be done!
Regards
Andy
22 December 1999, 08:41 AM
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Its very hard to filter out bass due to the energy involved with the signal, just think of a nightclub, what do you hear outside, the bass or the treble?
The theory that bass is easily blocked in a car is wrong, and I have often heard a sub that is louder in a saloon than a hatch. I think this is because the saloon boot is closer to a sealed enclosure than a hatch, and we all know that a sealed enclosure allows the sub to rebound the whole sine wave, and therefore effectively amplify the signal.
The enclosure that the sub is in is the most important factor by far, then you look at the other factors like efficiency, power available, phase etc etc etc.
It is a science, not just a matter of dropping a few Ks worth of "named" ICE into a car.
robski
The theory that bass is easily blocked in a car is wrong, and I have often heard a sub that is louder in a saloon than a hatch. I think this is because the saloon boot is closer to a sealed enclosure than a hatch, and we all know that a sealed enclosure allows the sub to rebound the whole sine wave, and therefore effectively amplify the signal.
The enclosure that the sub is in is the most important factor by far, then you look at the other factors like efficiency, power available, phase etc etc etc.
It is a science, not just a matter of dropping a few Ks worth of "named" ICE into a car.
robski
22 December 1999, 10:39 AM
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Andy & Robski,
thanks for constructive comments - i'll find another installer (as you probably guessed i know hardly anything about ICE). Subs in the boot are a yes then - cool!
Lee (Mr Stroppy) - best you get a good nights sleep before posting eh?
Dave
thanks for constructive comments - i'll find another installer (as you probably guessed i know hardly anything about ICE). Subs in the boot are a yes then - cool!
Lee (Mr Stroppy) - best you get a good nights sleep before posting eh?
Dave
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22 December 1999, 11:36 AM
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Oops !
(was up at 4:30 today posting away feeling like blurgh..have to check my other posts!)
reason I said that (in that tone) is that apart from the install I have done I know nowt about ICE and it peeves me that a shop ie pro can make that statement.
next bit of advice..if you want decent bass go for a 10".
(was up at 4:30 today posting away feeling like blurgh..have to check my other posts!)
reason I said that (in that tone) is that apart from the install I have done I know nowt about ICE and it peeves me that a shop ie pro can make that statement.
next bit of advice..if you want decent bass go for a 10".
22 December 1999, 11:51 AM
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Sanity,
You've hit the nail squarely on the head. The minidisk is a good option, with CD changer. Make sure you get a 'bus control' system so that you can add other devices such as minidisk changer, TV input, AUX etc. I have a Pioneer that does the job. For speakers you first have a choice of front/sub or front/rear/sub. Personally I have front/rear/sub and prefer the 'surround' feel to the front/sub option. I have mid/tweet JB's all round, using built in amp and crossovers from head unit. I shall expand on this with an amp or 2 and dedicated x-overs. As they say: get it in, then tweek it later!
pilch
You've hit the nail squarely on the head. The minidisk is a good option, with CD changer. Make sure you get a 'bus control' system so that you can add other devices such as minidisk changer, TV input, AUX etc. I have a Pioneer that does the job. For speakers you first have a choice of front/sub or front/rear/sub. Personally I have front/rear/sub and prefer the 'surround' feel to the front/sub option. I have mid/tweet JB's all round, using built in amp and crossovers from head unit. I shall expand on this with an amp or 2 and dedicated x-overs. As they say: get it in, then tweek it later!
pilch
22 December 1999, 01:35 PM
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Listen to Lee he is right.
having listened to my car as the system was being installed, your dealer is somewhat right.
Try listening to a club system with pillow around your head and then say that he is wrong.
Yes if you stand outside a club all you here is bass that is true, but how bad does it sound, it has no definition, clarity or punch, just boom. The reason it carries is that normal sub wavelengths are in the several metres range and are therefore not absorbed or diffracted by the structures in the world we live in. Unless your walls ten metres thick and your corridors ten metres wide, I know mine aren't.
You would be best to install a sub and lose the rear speakers and I promise you the sound will be better than oterwise.
Not only that but hifi wise, rear speakers are bad. if you need convincing go to a hifi dealer and listen to stereo music, taking note of how many speakers in the room are being used.
The sub will make it through the seats, but you can operate the amps at a lower gain to achieve the same volume by removing the rear speakers. The quality will improve further still.
Another consideration is that if you have a pumping sub, it will increase air pressure in the boot, this will cause you rear shelf speakers to be driven by the chamber behind them. They will distort more easily as they are not being equally driven in both directions as they receive a different signal from the subs. They will also be pushed beyond their driven maximum excursion.
Hope this helps.
[This message has been edited by Adam M (edited 22-12-1999).]
having listened to my car as the system was being installed, your dealer is somewhat right.
Try listening to a club system with pillow around your head and then say that he is wrong.
Yes if you stand outside a club all you here is bass that is true, but how bad does it sound, it has no definition, clarity or punch, just boom. The reason it carries is that normal sub wavelengths are in the several metres range and are therefore not absorbed or diffracted by the structures in the world we live in. Unless your walls ten metres thick and your corridors ten metres wide, I know mine aren't.
You would be best to install a sub and lose the rear speakers and I promise you the sound will be better than oterwise.
Not only that but hifi wise, rear speakers are bad. if you need convincing go to a hifi dealer and listen to stereo music, taking note of how many speakers in the room are being used.
The sub will make it through the seats, but you can operate the amps at a lower gain to achieve the same volume by removing the rear speakers. The quality will improve further still.
Another consideration is that if you have a pumping sub, it will increase air pressure in the boot, this will cause you rear shelf speakers to be driven by the chamber behind them. They will distort more easily as they are not being equally driven in both directions as they receive a different signal from the subs. They will also be pushed beyond their driven maximum excursion.
Hope this helps.
[This message has been edited by Adam M (edited 22-12-1999).]
22 December 1999, 03:52 PM
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The problem with the just fronts reasoning is that from the drivers seat you are not eqidistant between the front speakers, in a true stereo environment you should be. Adjusting the volume left to right does not solve the problem, it hides it. Having a rear setup does seem to round the sound more, even tho it in theory means more sound is arriving at your ears at different times. Its all a matter of taste.
Saying that, remember that the people who compete in point of reference sound offs do just use a front sounds stage, but this is not measured from the drivers seat.
robski
Saying that, remember that the people who compete in point of reference sound offs do just use a front sounds stage, but this is not measured from the drivers seat.
robski
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