TurboFreak

Owned the car for 6 weeks before it dropped a shell, strange as it was running like a dream, didn't miss a beat hot or cold.
Replaced with good s/h engine but it had the problem of hunting when hot, still performed well though.
Slowly the eratic idling got worse, the idle valve (stepping motor) was swapped but no change.
A air leak was considered but nothing found.
Last week I changed the coil pack as I wanted to make sure one I was selling was good, but next day the car pulled back a couple of times, thinking the coil pack was faulty put my original one back on, but car still run badly and got worse, now missing badly and seems to run on 2/3 cyl;inders then pick up and go for a few minutes.
Engine check light flashed on for a few seconds prior to the coil pack swap.
Fault codes: 23 (mass air flow sensor circuit) 24 (idle control system) (open/short in ISC valve circuit).
Checked tonight and no signs of coil pack or leads shorting out.
Car can not be driven like it is as problem has got so bad.
Any help on best way to resolve this problem much appreciated.
I was thinking MAF clean and poss new leads/plugs?

wrx271

iTrader: (1)

I would replace that airflow meter straight away for starters there a common fault on the p1 and can lead to engine failure if not sorted the hunting will probably be from the faulty afm it's probably the reason it went in the first place if I'm not wrong that was a p1 trate

I take it the engine you put back in was an sti block you need to have a read across the net about p1's looked after there brilliant not looked after =££££

dj219957

as above you wanna be replacing the maf on that age car.

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

as sad, replace the airflow meter (maf) with genuine subaru one, do not clean it.

Simon

TurboFreak

I suspect the airflow meter but it just seems strange the car run 100% with the old engine, why start going wrong because of an engine change? First poor idling then pulling back only after I changed coil packs about 2 days ago?

The replacement engine had all my fittings, injectors, leads, coil pack, turbo etc changed over because I knew they all worked without any problem. Lightened flywheel and competition clutch were also fitted along with new water pump, cambelt kit and uprated oil filter. But engine is standard P1 as far as I know.

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

the ecu corrects the fueling using the lambda sensor.. it drives fairly normal, you wont notice the odd dip in fueling.. then the ecu is reset (battery disconnected whilst engine changed) and then the ecu's learning is removed and the idle hunts..

Simon

TurboFreak

I was not happy with guy who gave me car back knowing it had idle issues when hot.
He was meant to know scoobies and charged me £200 more then he quoted me for the engine swap.
I also found the throttle had about 1" free travel as he hadn't fitted it properly, could this have had any effect on the ecu etc? And caused my idle problem.

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

no

Dmacnz

Tps worth checking too.

martinnitram

Im very new to scoobys, but with swapping the engine have any plug in connectors been stretched, are they still making good connection, bent pins etc etc, any of these could cause intermittent problems.

Worth thinking about, especially if the installer was a bit rough as you said.

johned

Change MAF as JGM and consider the neutral switch as well maybe.

boosted

Is the engine earth good?

TurboFreak

Well as advised by JGM got a new MAF from dealer in Crawley, they service Subarus and supply parts. But only sell Kias and Misubishi.
I fitted the MAF but no difference, the box had Subaru on it, just the label, but nothing on the MAF itself, which seemed odd to me for a genuine part?
Any thoughts on this as I am concerned the MAF is not genuine scooby.
I purchased a new set of performance leads today (10mm) for track and race, I now suspect the leads were weak and have deteriated after being changed from old engine and got worse when I changed coil packs.
So waiting for leads to arrive Monday.
But in the meantime can anyone confirm if I have been ripped off with the 'genuine' MAF?

TurboFreak

boosted.. where is the engine earth situated on the P1

johned

Maf usually has some ID on it,but did you do an ecu reset after you fitted it?.

TurboFreak

I connected black and green block connections to eliminate error codes, full throttle then held at half throttle is that what you mean?

TurboFreak

Ref MAF, I did contact the garage who supplied it and they said they thought all there parts were genuine Subaru, but they would say that wouldn't they?
I have heard of dealers who supplied non original parts.
Can anyone confirm if they have bought any 100% original genuine scooby parts without manufacturers markings?

wrx271

iTrader: (1)

Wot you will find is only one person will make the maf sensor for Subaru company's will buy direct from the oe manufacturer but are not aloud to sell it with the Subaru info on it so it's either ground off or not put on there in the first place. So you will probably find out that your part is Infact genuine also you can tell buy the price Subaru maf sensors are normally £££.

Same thing applys to other manufacturers parts like motorcraft pads made buy tmd friction and sold under the pagid brand as pagid are owned but tmd friction so you buy pagid as aftermarket but wot you actually get is a genuine pad

TurboFreak

There is a genuine new Subaru MAF on-line, it has the part number on the box and on the actual MAF in white, just like the one on the car.
There is def not just one supplier of these MAF sensors, the market is flooded with cheap ones that are known to be inferior and can cause problems... this is why Jolly Green Monster advised to only buy genuine.
I have spent years in the motor trade as a fully qualified panel beater/sprayer and dealt with many parts for different cars.
The fact is I did pay Subaru dealer price for the MAF to avoid a cheaper inferior quality one, it cost me nearly £100 more then I could have paid and it wouldn't be the first time a dealer has been caught selling none genuine parts to make big profits and certainly does not prove the part is genuine.
I have contacted customer service at Subaru UK to see if they can confirm parts like a MAF are supplied with no identification.

johned

I would be thinking on the same lines as you and hope you get this sorted.

TurboFreak

I will let you guys know how I get on, if Subaru UK do confirm it can not be a genuine part supplied by them I will name and shame the garage which is listed as my nearest scooby dealer but only service and supply parts.
They sell Mitsubishi and... Kia?

My local trading standards office will also be getting a call.

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

You'll probably find the dealer just buys any maf that conforms to the industry standard and sells it as genuine Subaru. Subaru don't actually make it themselves. They don't have to keep using the same brand that they buy in either. Just which ever conforms and is most likely the cheapest at the time of purchase.

TurboFreak

I think the manufacturer has standards that are recognised as top qulity for obvious reasons, then you get cheap after market supplies from China etc that do not meet the same quality control as original parts.

Of course sometimes you can go directly to the maker of the part, example a Lucas headlamp and pay half the price you might pay if it came in say a Jaguar box. But you are still buying a genuine quality item.

My suspicion with this MAF is I have simply been charged main dealer price for a after market MAF that I could have bought £100 cheaper.

I have many years experience in the motor trade, managed a bodyshop for a main dealer, own busines etc etc, something just isn't right being supplied with a 'genuine' part with no ID on it.

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

I always thought that the 'Genuine Subaru' mags were about £100 anyway? How much did you pay?

TurboFreak

I managed to get a trade discount and paid £120.28, also cost me £10 worth of fuel to go and collect so £130, I could have got after market MAF delivered for £33. So all in it cost me extra £97 to buy 'genuine'.

wrx271

iTrader: (1)

The problem is your blaming a new part for not correcting what sounds like a car that's been worked on buy muppets just because you have got a code out the Ecu doesn't mean that that code points to where the fault lies ie maf sensor so you changed the maf no difference what about the wiring what about another cause my friend had a code on his sti it was for the boost sensor so he changed boost sensor no difference so we called racedynamix out who plug into the Ecu traced the fault via his laptop bit of fiddling and hey presto broken wire i think your getting hung up On the fact you've spent £££ and it's Made no change and because it's an airmass your know that in the trade you won't get a refund because you've used it only my opinion.

Get the car looked at buy a proper outlet just because you've run body shop and been a panel beater won't make you an expert on subarus and diagnostics. Again don't mean to be rude if that's how it reads.

Another point is that the p1 or v6 was a short run of cars therefore the demand for cheaper aftermarket parts will be in small typical owner of a p1 would go to the dealer for that part therefore company's would not bother producing as they would sell maybe one or two if lucky I'm surprised with all you background you wouldn't have know of the p1 problems and came on hear saying your going to give it a clean. Also you said the car carnt be driven now as problem has got so bad does that mean you wer driving it around with a problem for a wile.

Good luck with trading standards and international motors and the main stealer

TurboFreak

WTF... with all due respect just about everything you have said is 100% wrong, so wrong it would take to long on here explaining why... but you are entitled to your opinions.

For anybody else to does understand where I am coming from on this I will update after confirmation from Subaru UK ref the 'genuine' MAF sensor and the fitting of new high performance leads today.

Anger

iTrader: (4)

I've never had any Problems with Gatwick Subaru and still use them for parts from time to time

johned

Mabe it is something the mechanic did.

TurboFreak

OK, firstly Gary the Subaru parts manager for UK has been brilliant and very helpful.
He agreed it was unusual for a Subaru supplied part not to have the Subaru part number on it but checks have confirmed the latest batch they have do not have the number on side of MAF... so part is genuine.

Back to sorting out the problem.

New MAF hasn't helped with hunting on idle or the misfire problem that started only when coilpack changed.

Fitted new 10mm competition HT leads today and car run smooth again... no misfire but still not the nice even running it should have.
Went to drive the 2 miles home (car is in workshop until problem sorted) got 1 mile and it started running like a bag of s**t again?
Returned straight back to workshop, fitted another coilpack and it improved, but still not right, very uneven and sometimes cuts out on idle.

I have 3 coilpacks... maybe all 3 are faulty?
I have 2 idle control valves (stepping motors) maybe they are both faulty?

I thought I had cleared codes 23 and 24 by using the recommended system (connecting black and green connections etc) but they are still there, I will disconnect battery to clear them.

If anyone has any other advice/ideas how to sort this problem out in a cost effective way it would be greatly appreciated... thanks.