Dai P

iTrader: (3)

As highlighted in a few recent threads, the EJ engines seem to have a nasty habit of cracking the oil pickup pipe and killing the engine. It seems to be more common on the 2.5 (which I have) and the more I read up on it, the more I'd like to prevent it happening to mine.

I'm not keen on replacing the pickup pipe with another genuine one just to be in the same boat in a few years.

The only upgraded option I have seen is the Killer B one from the states. It's a bit spendy but seems to do the job well enough. Is there another option available? If not, does anyone in the UK stock Killer B stuff?

Cheers,

Dai

Fonzey

iTrader: (5)

Subscribing, as I'd like to do this at the same time as a baffled sump plate...

pinseeker

iTrader: (3)

Mocom Racing are stocking the Killer B oil pickup pipe

JGlanzaV

iTrader: (3)

As above, the killer B stuff is TOP quality, you really wont go wrong with that!

Got their manifolds on mine and it was worth every penny, I will also be getting the pick up and a few other bits from them

the_baz

I had the oil pick up fracture on my hawkeye. Only reason I investigated it was because my defi gauge showed presure wasn't building up properly on initial start up. The defi gauge saved my engine as would never of know it was starting to fracture with out it

Dai P

iTrader: (3)

So there doesn't seem to be anything between the £30 genuine and the $180 plus shipping Killer B one? What did you replace yours with Baz?

Can't see one on the Mocom site, I'll drop them a mail. If I have to order from the states I'll be getting their baffle plate as well I think.

Gambit

iTrader: (6)

2.0 sump and pickup not a cheaper fix?

Dai P

iTrader: (3)

Judging by the many threads on NASIOC the 2.0 is not immune either unfortunately.

THIS PAGE on Killer B's site shows the different pickups fitted to 2.0 and 2.5 and they are of much the same design and manufacturing method. The photo album link makes for worrying viewing

JGlanzaV

iTrader: (3)

Not if you have a twin scroll on it it isnt.

And as said 2.0 set ups arent immune either. I will be pulling my sump off again to do the pick up pipe as I am running a 2.5 sump and pick up in my scoob

Gambit

iTrader: (6)

yeah i was under the assumption that most people knew the 2.5 used the 2.0 Twinscroll sump & pickup setup

the only 2.0 failure ive heard/read off is on killerb's website -there isnt any real talk of it on here or anywhere else?

JGlanzaV

iTrader: (3)

Doesnt mean it didnt happen

The science backs it up, and I shall be investing in one thats for sure!

cster

You should have taken your car to Extreme Scoobies mate.
I went there because the oil light took a while to go out on start up, but Paul told me it was quite normal, even when he tested it out with his gauge - said it must just be air in the connector pipe to his gauge. Having done a bit of research, I did mention the possibility of pick up pipe fracture. He said the pickup pipes never fail on these engines.
To cut a long story short - the engine suffered ringland and big end failure.
TBF to Paul, the engine had covered 90K miles.
Took it to API who discovered the oil pickup pipe was fractured.
Cost of rebuild - 3K.
Wouldn't have minded, but Extreme had just repaired the HGs about 9 months previous.
To make matters worse, at the same time they replaced the clutch plate with a faulty unit which caused a severe resonance in the transmission that Paul and his "transmission expert" were not able to diagnose.
API managed to fix this for me (at an eventual cost of 1.6K). The clutch plate had two lose springs.
What's the lesson here I wonder.

Dai P

iTrader: (3)

I'm really surprised none of the UK suppliers have developed their own solution for this, or at least started stocking and advertising the Killer B one.

I've been in contact with Chris at Killer B. He's happy to ship internationally, although it's not cheap. He's also open to the suggestion of a group buy if anyone else would be interested?

I've had no reply to my mail to Mocom, I'll try and ring them later in the week.

Re. the 2.0 vs 2.5 pickups, in the pic on the Killer B site the 2.0 looks slightly shorter. Maybe this is enough to put it under less stress and delay the cracking? Although the fault seems to lie with the manufacturing process so it may only be a matter of time. I wonder how many engine failures have been caused by this and never been correctly diagnosed?

Fonzey

iTrader: (5)

Do they do an updated pickup for the 2.0?

jazzyjembreaze

iTrader: (11)

You can purchase the whole set up from KB
Pick up , baffle , & there sump pan
Works out a bit cheaper if purchased all together ( as 2 individually )
Many companies in the states stock the above & some even undercut the manufacturer so it pays to do a good search as the shipping rates are mostly identical

It's a sensible & worthy item to replace so get it ticked off your list guys

JGlanzaV

iTrader: (3)

They are different due to the different sump lay outs etc. Shipping isnt that bad really, I had my killer b manifold sent and it came in a 3ft square box and weighed a tonne lol.


And no one does stuff like this in the uk because uk subaru tuning seems to be 5 years behind the rest of the world, and the market for uk subaru tuning means it would still cost more to buy a product manufactured here than it would importing one from the states!

I try and source form the states where ever possible where tuning is about been original and doing something different rather than driving your car through the RCM shop.

As above, i always just go to chris as the service is second to none and I know it will be done asap

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

And no one does stuff like this in the uk because uk subaru tuning seems to be 5 years behind the rest of the world, and the market for uk subaru tuning means it would still cost more to buy a product manufactured here than it would importing one from the states!

I disagree with that wholeheartedly. There is plenty of innovation here in the UK for Subaru work and if you look at what the likes of us and Clinic and The Clarks do, you'll see that we are on top of it.

Just because the yanks do it differently does not mean they are right [ or wrong ] it is what they do for their market, their way.

As for the pick up pipe, we have never had a failure of one we have fitted [ standard Subaru.] Neither according to Clinic or Olly Clark, have they, I expect Alan Jeffrey will be along quite soon to advise his situation .

It is a non moving part and whilst we have seen plenty of cracked ones on blown engines here we have been fortunate that we seem to have overcome the problem by careful selection of the pipe and taking care to fit it.

I can see the logic of wanting to fit the Killer B one, but my opinion is that we are on top of it our way. If it does surface as a problem for us, then all it will need is a couple of bracing struts either side of the tube to the flange where it bolts to the block. Until it becomes a problem for APi we'll continue doing it our way.

David

Fonzey

iTrader: (5)

Setting aside the jab regarding the UK being 5 years behind, you've got to see it from the consumers point of view.

It's not our fault/problem that the OEM pipe may or may not have been incorrectly installed by Subaru all those years ago - but it'll be us paying thousands of pounds for a rebuild if it does crack and fatally starve the oil flow in the engine.

So if somebody comes forth with a solution costing a few hundred ££ which will replace a documented failing part (whether down to installation or poor design is irrelevant), it becomes a very attractive and desirable upgrade because not only will installation be revisited, but also with a sturdier part.

If a UK tuner/supplier produced or distributed these, I'd be one of the first in line.

JGlanzaV

iTrader: (3)

Completely agree, but at a reasonable price.

Because everything over here is the equivalent price in $, So if something is $500, then it is £500 over here, so it still works out cheaper to import from the states for parts than it does to buy in the UK.

If UK parts manufacturers built competitively priced parts so it was cheaper to buy in england than look at the states then I would happily buy in the uk. But it seems parts over here are inordinately expensive.

Someone on here saved over £700 by buying their engine parts from the states for a 2.1 stroker. That isnt to be sniffed at.

AJ fitted my 2.5 sump and pick up etc and I have no doubt that it is fitted correctly, but I would still change it for a killer b one as the 0000's£ in my engine for something stupid like a oil pick up to ruin it isnt worth taking the risk on!

It wasnt intended as a jab at anyone, its just an honest opinion that some of the practices (which are consumer driven, as that is what they want at the end of the day) hold back performance etc, it really does seem to me like everyone is doing the same old stuff and not really pushing boundaries anymore

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

it really does seem to me like everyone is doing the same old stuff and not really pushing boundaries anymore

Not many customers want to be experimented on. They want a tried and trusted conversion where results are almost 'guaranteed'. So a 2.1 is built with this turbo etc. and a 2.5 uses a such and such.
From our point of view, budgets, ours and yours are very tight and we just don't have enough fat on the bone to experiment with a whim - " to see what happens " And quite often a rebuild is forced upon the car owner who has a disaster on their hands and " it couldn't have come at a worse time " is so often heard. Therefore, there is less inclination to try things a bit off the wall in case it doesn't work out.

I know it is possible to buy in the US and save money, but that isn't for everyone. AND where do you stand with warranty? if you have a problem with me or any of the rest of us you can call in, sit down, make your point and we can sort it out face to face.

Try doing that across 2000 miles of sea.

David

JGlanzaV

iTrader: (3)

I agree David, As said in my previous post it is mainly the consumers fault, as you can only give them what they pay for! It seems that everyone these days is happy to follow the crowd which is a shame as I have no doubt we have the talent and engineering process's to make it happen and it is a shame the economy is stifling new products.

And I also agree totally that buying from America comes with its own challenges and trials. BUT, there arent many people in this world who can afford to sniff at a 700£ saving on parts alone. I think I would take the chances on warranty stuff for a saving of £700!

It just seems odd why it is SO much cheaper in the states than here?

fpan

iTrader: (11)

What do you mean pressure wasn't building up properly?
What pressure did you have upon start-up?
Did your car have coilovers? I am asking as maybe the harder damping could cause them to crack or is it irrelevant?

jazzyjembreaze

iTrader: (11)

^
They mainly fracture ( but can snap
Best way to describe is what David (API)
Described in a past thread a wilst back...

Some kind of Harmonic distortion ( vibration ) causing the pipe to fluctuate

& that's about it ....

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

EVERYTHING is cheaper in the USA; from food, restaurants, cars, to fuel, to home furnishings, to just about anything. It's only the Hookers in Las Vegas that are dearer - I have been told ..............

D

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

Still haven't got any better reason for the breakage. Although if you look closely at one you'll see that. The pipe is, let's say 13mm diameter and the hole in the mounting flange is 12 mm and the pipe has been forced into the flange and then welded. So it is possible that the stress on the pipe being force-squeezed into the hole has set up a stress area that just cracks through a combination of vibrations and heating up and cooling down.

David

Dai P

iTrader: (3)

The consensus seems to be the flux used in the braising process has not been cleaned off, causing etching of the pipe giving a site for a crack to start and propagate. Poor manufacturing tolerances of the support leg mean some are too short so the pipe is under stress when it's bolted down. E.g.

slash920

i was going to get one after reading this but after what api has written it has made me think, he has never seen one go. makes you wonder.

they are on ebay btw.

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

We check that fit [ shown in the photo ] thoroughly and have never seen that. It is the obvious thing to look for and we have found all to be OK. Sawing through the support bracket would prove the point about strut length and stress, but once sawn through, it cannot be sent back to Subaru for a refund...................

The bronze welding flux is part of the key to it, as they all seem to fracture around the edge of the weld. But maybe that is so because the weld area is thicker than the regular pipe. Not by much, I agree, but it is thicker. So the first weak point is where the fracture occurs.

Alan Jeffery

Yes, yes, and yes..

DIPSY

Sum snap at the bend were one side is stretched ie wall thickness become thinner with bending .Plus with brazing the heat being used changes the steel structure you can see how much heat has travelled up the pipe. Plus not very thick walled pipe .Better of with hot rolled seamless pipe