Play in shaft
02 November 2012, 07:58 PM
#1
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Play in shaft
A mate came round today to show me his td05, the shaft moves in and out about 3mm no movement left and right is this common?
02 November 2012, 10:51 PM
#3
The turbo in question has only done around 4k so ive been told, the rest of it looks in good condition.
what does in/out play mean, ive never seen it before (only up and down)
Thanks for the post lee
what does in/out play mean, ive never seen it before (only up and down)
Thanks for the post lee
04 November 2012, 08:55 PM
#7
right ok, i certainly have nothing to hide, nor was the the turbo sold to yourself as a duff how you put it!!
i bought the turbo on here from TAZZ now called BILLET and he bought the turbo for from JEFFWRX, i paid £500 for ther turbo from tazz(billet) and it sat in my cupboard and never made it to the car as my plans had changed and lost my driving licence, when the turbo arrived and had a look for play and it seemed fine to me.
So in no way are you saying i tried to sell you a duff buddy, please use PM and do not call me out on a public forum.
Grant
i bought the turbo on here from TAZZ now called BILLET and he bought the turbo for from JEFFWRX, i paid £500 for ther turbo from tazz(billet) and it sat in my cupboard and never made it to the car as my plans had changed and lost my driving licence, when the turbo arrived and had a look for play and it seemed fine to me.
So in no way are you saying i tried to sell you a duff buddy, please use PM and do not call me out on a public forum.
Grant
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04 November 2012, 09:03 PM
#8
i have sent tazz a pm regarding this thread as well, as the simple fact of the matter is.
(if the turbo is no good) then it was sold to me like this, i have a few pictures of it here when opened in the box from tazz and never left the box until sent to you.
was a planned upgrade for my sti8 along with a load of other parts but recently i sold everything.
Grant
(if the turbo is no good) then it was sold to me like this, i have a few pictures of it here when opened in the box from tazz and never left the box until sent to you.
was a planned upgrade for my sti8 along with a load of other parts but recently i sold everything.
Grant
04 November 2012, 10:06 PM
#9
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I sold the turbo to wrx fifer. I bought it from Jeffwrx and fitted it to an 03 sti. When the turbo arrived i checked it for play in the shaft, the first thing everyone does when buying a turbo and there wasn't any. I also checked for cracks etc, the turbo was in tip top condition.
It was fitted and the car was mapped, the turbo pulled hard and worked as it should.
I took it off as it was replaced with an md321T
Again, before selling it i checked the condition of the turbo and it was the same as when i fitted it.
When wrx fifer bought it he messaged me saying the turbo had reached him safely.
Wrx fifer hasn't used it so i don't understand how there is play in the shaft.
I have heard of turbos having a little play when they haven't been used for a while and i sold this around two to three months ago, so maybe it needs to get some oil around it.
It was fitted and the car was mapped, the turbo pulled hard and worked as it should.
I took it off as it was replaced with an md321T
Again, before selling it i checked the condition of the turbo and it was the same as when i fitted it.
When wrx fifer bought it he messaged me saying the turbo had reached him safely.
Wrx fifer hasn't used it so i don't understand how there is play in the shaft.
I have heard of turbos having a little play when they haven't been used for a while and i sold this around two to three months ago, so maybe it needs to get some oil around it.
05 November 2012, 12:19 AM
#10
pm sent with regard to situation, am a stand up guy and if sent back a refund will be sent, and i will have it checked also, have a friend that knows andy forrest where it can go and get a verdict immediately then will take it from there.
Grant
Grant
05 November 2012, 07:18 AM
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Chris came to me with a question on the tdo5 he bought , I checked the turbo and there is no play left to right !
However in and out there seems to be a lot of play this turbo needs to be checked and confirmed that it's ok.
I'm no expert by any means but the few turbos that have past through my hands havnt been like the turbo in question my tdo4 didn't move like this and the vf48 I'm running had no play in the shaft whatsoever.
I'm sure this situation will get resolved quickly as most members on here are genuine enthusiasts like myself .
However in and out there seems to be a lot of play this turbo needs to be checked and confirmed that it's ok.
I'm no expert by any means but the few turbos that have past through my hands havnt been like the turbo in question my tdo4 didn't move like this and the vf48 I'm running had no play in the shaft whatsoever.
I'm sure this situation will get resolved quickly as most members on here are genuine enthusiasts like myself .
09 November 2012, 08:35 AM
#14
Just to update this, I have sent the turbo back and received a full refund , grant has confirmed the play and has been a genuine seller all the way through helping me anyway possible
As for billet, you need to take some responsibility for this or refund for the repairs as the play wouldn't occur if not fitted to grants car.
Thanks to lee and grant for helping me with this matter and getting it sorted.
Nice to know there are still honest enthusiasts
Cheers chris
As for billet, you need to take some responsibility for this or refund for the repairs as the play wouldn't occur if not fitted to grants car.
Thanks to lee and grant for helping me with this matter and getting it sorted.
Nice to know there are still honest enthusiasts
Cheers chris
09 November 2012, 12:32 PM
#15
Bit confused here. People are saying in and out movement (axial) is bad but up and down ok?? When the turbo is spinning the play will take up due to thrust. Up and down movement will possibly cause vibration and if too much, will allow the compressor wheel to touch the housing - surely a much worse scenario than axial movement? OK, 3mm is a lot and perhaps needs investigating but I wonder how much percievable movement there is when it's spinning with pressurised oil being fed to the bearing and everything up to working temp?
JohnD
JohnD
Last edited by JohnD; 09 November 2012 at 12:34 PM.
09 November 2012, 07:21 PM
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When I checked the turbo there was a lot of movement in and out more than 3mm about 5mm from inlet to exhaust.
No amount of oil will compensate for this as the bearings need replacing.
Glad it's now sorted for you Chris , but unfortunately grant is the loser in this sale , second hand parts are always a bought on the sellers reputability as being genuine and in order if we keep selling parts that arent fit for purpose then I'm afraid we are going to see more posts like this in the future.
No amount of oil will compensate for this as the bearings need replacing.
Glad it's now sorted for you Chris , but unfortunately grant is the loser in this sale , second hand parts are always a bought on the sellers reputability as being genuine and in order if we keep selling parts that arent fit for purpose then I'm afraid we are going to see more posts like this in the future.
10 November 2012, 12:38 AM
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Bit confused here. People are saying in and out movement (axial) is bad but up and down ok?? When the turbo is spinning the play will take up due to thrust. Up and down movement will possibly cause vibration and if too much, will allow the compressor wheel to touch the housing - surely a much worse scenario than axial movement? OK, 3mm is a lot and perhaps needs investigating but I wonder how much percievable movement there is when it's spinning with pressurised oil being fed to the bearing and everything up to working temp?
JohnD
JohnD
However, once the sleeve bearings become saturated with oil, the perceived radial play is much reduced.
It feels like there is no play, but if you press it, it will have a bit of play.
On a TD05 radial can be 0.7mm
Axial can only be .05mm
I think radial leaves room for oil film and possibly accounts for difference in expansion between turbine shaft and sleeve bearings. A fully hot operational turbo, as the housing glows red, may show no radial play, but nobody is going to test this..
A factory TD04 will not reach 0.7mm even after a long duration in service. Mine never touched that kind of play at 110K miles.
10 November 2012, 10:37 AM
#18
The lubrication inside the cartridge (CHRA) is not pressurized. The draining is via gravity. If you were to have a turbo mounted in a position where gravity is not able to drain the lubricating oil, it will come out of the exhaust.
However, once the sleeve bearings become saturated with oil, the perceived radial play is much reduced.
It feels like there is no play, but if you press it, it will have a bit of play.
On a TD05 radial can be 0.7mm
Axial can only be .05mm
I think radial leaves room for oil film and possibly accounts for difference in expansion between turbine shaft and sleeve bearings. A fully hot operational turbo, as the housing glows red, may show no radial play, but nobody is going to test this..
A factory TD04 will not reach 0.7mm even after a long duration in service. Mine never touched that kind of play at 110K miles.
However, once the sleeve bearings become saturated with oil, the perceived radial play is much reduced.
It feels like there is no play, but if you press it, it will have a bit of play.
On a TD05 radial can be 0.7mm
Axial can only be .05mm
I think radial leaves room for oil film and possibly accounts for difference in expansion between turbine shaft and sleeve bearings. A fully hot operational turbo, as the housing glows red, may show no radial play, but nobody is going to test this..
A factory TD04 will not reach 0.7mm even after a long duration in service. Mine never touched that kind of play at 110K miles.
JohnD
11 November 2012, 01:41 AM
#20
well i have recieved the turbo back from chris, and there is play in and out, i have contacted billet seen as i bought it from him for £500 with regard to turbo who wont be taking it back as cant afford to take the hit, which leaves me taking the hit, but may pay for a rebuild kit!
Grant
Grant
11 November 2012, 07:38 PM
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They can be in the $75-150 range, Kinugawa and Kamak have some good ones (at the high end, you get genuine MHI parts) and when you're done with the rebuild, it's a good idea to send it out for high speed ballancing, to have a well sorted out unit.
A nice place (like Forced Perfomance here in US), will not only ballance it for an affordable price, but will also take a look at your rebuilding work, you can talk to them, they'll give you advice, opinions, etc.
Then you'll get a receipt for the high speed ballancing and you can post that at the time of the sale, to increase the appeal.
A nice place (like Forced Perfomance here in US), will not only ballance it for an affordable price, but will also take a look at your rebuilding work, you can talk to them, they'll give you advice, opinions, etc.
Then you'll get a receipt for the high speed ballancing and you can post that at the time of the sale, to increase the appeal.
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