Manley enough?
#1
Manley enough?
Hello,
In the new year I'll be looking to fit a 2.1 stroker kit to MY94 WRX. I've looked at a few deals and found a kit which is Manley billet crank, Manley Rods, Manley Pistons, ACL bearings.
My problem is that it is half the price of the RCM equivelant. I'm "only" looking to achieve around 400BHP with other mods, so not looking for massive 600BHP+ figures.
Would this kit be up to the job? I've heard that Manley rod's aren't the strongest?
In the new year I'll be looking to fit a 2.1 stroker kit to MY94 WRX. I've looked at a few deals and found a kit which is Manley billet crank, Manley Rods, Manley Pistons, ACL bearings.
My problem is that it is half the price of the RCM equivelant. I'm "only" looking to achieve around 400BHP with other mods, so not looking for massive 600BHP+ figures.
Would this kit be up to the job? I've heard that Manley rod's aren't the strongest?
#3
So its definately strong enough for 400BHP?
Reliability is my main goal, as well as price, I'd rather stick with a CDB. A newage STI engine would cost what £1k? at least i'd imagine, plus mods to hit 400.
I'm looking at £1500 for this kit and would feel safer knowing its billet at the bottom, just in case i decide to go higher. Plus the learning and pride of building it myself.
Reliability is my main goal, as well as price, I'd rather stick with a CDB. A newage STI engine would cost what £1k? at least i'd imagine, plus mods to hit 400.
I'm looking at £1500 for this kit and would feel safer knowing its billet at the bottom, just in case i decide to go higher. Plus the learning and pride of building it myself.
#6
I spun a bering in my block this fall and im under the process of rebuild. So i bought the Manley strokerpistons, h-beam rods and a OEM 2010 Ver.9 nitrided crank. It's a open deck block, 1999 JDM STi.
You don't need the Manley billet crank, that's just money that you would be better of spending elsewhere. The nitrided crank is more than capable of 400bhp. It costs about $350 from importimageracing, i bought my pistons and rods from them also.
/David
You don't need the Manley billet crank, that's just money that you would be better of spending elsewhere. The nitrided crank is more than capable of 400bhp. It costs about $350 from importimageracing, i bought my pistons and rods from them also.
/David
Last edited by Gyver; 20 December 2011 at 07:40 AM.
#7
Thanks for all the advice. The 257 nitrided crank with Manley Piston's rods will cost £1050 delivered, but this would cost an additional £250 to have the thrust conversion done. the billet crank with Manley Piston's/Rods will set me back £1500 delivered with no machining required.
£200 extra for a billet crank and no relying on a company to alter the cases either. The cranks not the problem really, its the Rod's/Pistons, because if i choose to go higher, not saying i will just might want to, then I'd have to change Rod's/Pistons. Whereas if i paid an extra £100 or so now i could be comfortable.
But what Rod's/Piston's would i use? Cosworth?
£200 extra for a billet crank and no relying on a company to alter the cases either. The cranks not the problem really, its the Rod's/Pistons, because if i choose to go higher, not saying i will just might want to, then I'd have to change Rod's/Pistons. Whereas if i paid an extra £100 or so now i could be comfortable.
But what Rod's/Piston's would i use? Cosworth?
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#8
Thanks for all the advice. The 257 nitrided crank with Manley Piston's rods will cost £1050 delivered, but this would cost an additional £250 to have the thrust conversion done. the billet crank with Manley Piston's/Rods will set me back £1500 delivered with no machining required.
£200 extra for a billet crank and no relying on a company to alter the cases either. The cranks not the problem really, its the Rod's/Pistons, because if i choose to go higher, not saying i will just might want to, then I'd have to change Rod's/Pistons. Whereas if i paid an extra £100 or so now i could be comfortable.
But what Rod's/Piston's would i use? Cosworth?
£200 extra for a billet crank and no relying on a company to alter the cases either. The cranks not the problem really, its the Rod's/Pistons, because if i choose to go higher, not saying i will just might want to, then I'd have to change Rod's/Pistons. Whereas if i paid an extra £100 or so now i could be comfortable.
But what Rod's/Piston's would i use? Cosworth?
#9
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Lots of different opinions regarding Manley rods. I have heard good & bad stories. However if you stay at 400 then i dont think it should be a problem. I 'read' somewhere that Newage STi pistons are actually stronger than the Manleys.
Ofcoure do take everything with a pinch of salt
Ofcoure do take everything with a pinch of salt
#10
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ive got manley h beams with custom arp 625 bolts on my 2.3 build its gettin took to 600 horses and im not worried bout them was told its the rod bolt that goes hence uprated rod bolts in my build
#11
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Stroker kits
Hi there
I am sure everyone understands why certain kits are priced at the lower end of market?
I did a material analysis check of a stroker kit conrod when I was working at HRD F1, (cannot state conrod manufacturer) and I was very surprised, I compared this to a standard Subaru conrod and the Subaru conrod was 100% better material.
Advice would be do the job once and do it right, use a semi closed deck block or if you do have the budget build into a CDB, and use quality internals because performance envelope is improved. If 400/450 bhp is where you want to be there are very well engineer'd kits out there that will do the job, the build process is as important aswell.
Any questions drop us a pm
Cheers
Stephen.
I am sure everyone understands why certain kits are priced at the lower end of market?
I did a material analysis check of a stroker kit conrod when I was working at HRD F1, (cannot state conrod manufacturer) and I was very surprised, I compared this to a standard Subaru conrod and the Subaru conrod was 100% better material.
Advice would be do the job once and do it right, use a semi closed deck block or if you do have the budget build into a CDB, and use quality internals because performance envelope is improved. If 400/450 bhp is where you want to be there are very well engineer'd kits out there that will do the job, the build process is as important aswell.
Any questions drop us a pm
Cheers
Stephen.
#13
Hi there
I am sure everyone understands why certain kits are priced at the lower end of market?
I did a material analysis check of a stroker kit conrod when I was working at HRD F1, (cannot state conrod manufacturer) and I was very surprised, I compared this to a standard Subaru conrod and the Subaru conrod was 100% better material.
Advice would be do the job once and do it right, use a semi closed deck block or if you do have the budget build into a CDB, and use quality internals because performance envelope is improved. If 400/450 bhp is where you want to be there are very well engineer'd kits out there that will do the job, the build process is as important aswell.
Any questions drop us a pm
Cheers
Stephen.
I am sure everyone understands why certain kits are priced at the lower end of market?
I did a material analysis check of a stroker kit conrod when I was working at HRD F1, (cannot state conrod manufacturer) and I was very surprised, I compared this to a standard Subaru conrod and the Subaru conrod was 100% better material.
Advice would be do the job once and do it right, use a semi closed deck block or if you do have the budget build into a CDB, and use quality internals because performance envelope is improved. If 400/450 bhp is where you want to be there are very well engineer'd kits out there that will do the job, the build process is as important aswell.
Any questions drop us a pm
Cheers
Stephen.
I always thought the term stroker came from the longer stroke of the crank rather than altering the length of the rods or pistons.
#14
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Do not use a standard Subaru Conrod for anything above 400bhp to be completely on the safe side. I don't care who's analysed what materials there have been plenty of failures of the standard rod beyond that level.
I'd use a Manley H beam over a stock rod everytime. If you can honestly say that you won't go beyoind 400bhp then the manley kit will do you fine. There's absolutely no need to go for a billet crank. The standard EJ257 crank has been more than proven at almost double the level you are looking it.
For 600+ you'd be looking at the Lateral kit which uses a Crower Rod, or The RCM stuff. THis stuff will be more expensive than the Manley stuff but thats because it's an awful lot stronger.
For reference I'm running Pauter rods and a standard EJ257 Crank at just over 600bhp.
I'd use a Manley H beam over a stock rod everytime. If you can honestly say that you won't go beyoind 400bhp then the manley kit will do you fine. There's absolutely no need to go for a billet crank. The standard EJ257 crank has been more than proven at almost double the level you are looking it.
For 600+ you'd be looking at the Lateral kit which uses a Crower Rod, or The RCM stuff. THis stuff will be more expensive than the Manley stuff but thats because it's an awful lot stronger.
For reference I'm running Pauter rods and a standard EJ257 Crank at just over 600bhp.
#15
Do not use a standard Subaru Conrod for anything above 400bhp to be completely on the safe side. I don't care who's analysed what materials there have been plenty of failures of the standard rod beyond that level.
I'd use a Manley H beam over a stock rod everytime. If you can honestly say that you won't go beyoind 400bhp then the manley kit will do you fine. There's absolutely no need to go for a billet crank. The standard EJ257 crank has been more than proven at almost double the level you are looking it.
For 600+ you'd be looking at the Lateral kit which uses a Crower Rod, or The RCM stuff. THis stuff will be more expensive than the Manley stuff but thats because it's an awful lot stronger.
For reference I'm running Pauter rods and a standard EJ257 Crank at just over 600bhp.
I'd use a Manley H beam over a stock rod everytime. If you can honestly say that you won't go beyoind 400bhp then the manley kit will do you fine. There's absolutely no need to go for a billet crank. The standard EJ257 crank has been more than proven at almost double the level you are looking it.
For 600+ you'd be looking at the Lateral kit which uses a Crower Rod, or The RCM stuff. THis stuff will be more expensive than the Manley stuff but thats because it's an awful lot stronger.
For reference I'm running Pauter rods and a standard EJ257 Crank at just over 600bhp.
As i've said a 257 crank would be cheaper, but on a CDB I'd have to machine it for thrust which RCM do for £270. For an extra £200 i could go completely overkill and get the billet. I've even considered going for the 14mm headstud conversion, this coupled with RCM/Cosworth rods and pistons I'd feel completely comfortable with 400BHP and going further if i wanted.
I'll be here in a year telling you how I'd JUST managed to put it together, it won't be an overnight thing, i'm just trying to work out a direction and plan before i begin.
If i explain that it hit me that i've had my WRX for 6 years now and rather than selling up and spending £5k on getting a newer model I'd rather spend £5k on preserving/upgrading/learning plus having the pride in building it myself, inspiring others and teaching my 2 boys along the way how an engine works, maybe you'll know how I'm thinking.
Last edited by Kwik; 21 December 2011 at 11:36 AM.
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Thanks Kwik
Sounds like you have sorted with a good idea what to use.
Dazdavies I am not saying use a standard rod, I was referring to some conrod manufacturer's material being used is no good. Hence I advise invest in a quality kit from a respected company as I am sure everyone would.
One of my Time Attack customers is running a stock ej25 crank and it is performing brilliantly, area I would invest further in is conrods and pistons.
Cheers
Stephen
Sounds like you have sorted with a good idea what to use.
Dazdavies I am not saying use a standard rod, I was referring to some conrod manufacturer's material being used is no good. Hence I advise invest in a quality kit from a respected company as I am sure everyone would.
One of my Time Attack customers is running a stock ej25 crank and it is performing brilliantly, area I would invest further in is conrods and pistons.
Cheers
Stephen
#17
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Standard EJ257 crank has been to 700bhp and beyond. The likes of Andy F and Mad Hammer and co have more than put that theory to practice.
Kwik,
When you factor in the cost of the block conversion the billet crank makes sense. However make sure you plastiguage EVERYTHING when you build it. Measure, measure and measure again
Kwik,
When you factor in the cost of the block conversion the billet crank makes sense. However make sure you plastiguage EVERYTHING when you build it. Measure, measure and measure again
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Hi Kwik
If you need any advice or help feel free to contact me, I build absolutely loads of these stroker engines.
Dave coe is running one of my 2.1 wrc inspired engines in Time Attack and we have achieved some great results, currently giving her a refresh for next year.
Cheers
Stephen
If you need any advice or help feel free to contact me, I build absolutely loads of these stroker engines.
Dave coe is running one of my 2.1 wrc inspired engines in Time Attack and we have achieved some great results, currently giving her a refresh for next year.
Cheers
Stephen
#19
Standard EJ257 crank has been to 700bhp and beyond. The likes of Andy F and Mad Hammer and co have more than put that theory to practice.
Kwik,
When you factor in the cost of the block conversion the billet crank makes sense. However make sure you plastiguage EVERYTHING when you build it. Measure, measure and measure again
Kwik,
When you factor in the cost of the block conversion the billet crank makes sense. However make sure you plastiguage EVERYTHING when you build it. Measure, measure and measure again
Hi Kwik
If you need any advice or help feel free to contact me, I build absolutely loads of these stroker engines.
Dave coe is running one of my 2.1 wrc inspired engines in Time Attack and we have achieved some great results, currently giving her a refresh for next year.
Cheers
Stephen
If you need any advice or help feel free to contact me, I build absolutely loads of these stroker engines.
Dave coe is running one of my 2.1 wrc inspired engines in Time Attack and we have achieved some great results, currently giving her a refresh for next year.
Cheers
Stephen
#20
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very interesting......see my HG failure thread.
from the above i could build a good engine for not much more than sending the car to the dealers for just the HG replacement??
dont mean to hijack this thread but info on here and my thread (hopefully) should give me a good idea on prices and componants to go for.
steve
from the above i could build a good engine for not much more than sending the car to the dealers for just the HG replacement??
dont mean to hijack this thread but info on here and my thread (hopefully) should give me a good idea on prices and componants to go for.
steve
#22
very interesting......see my HG failure thread.
from the above i could build a good engine for not much more than sending the car to the dealers for just the HG replacement??
dont mean to hijack this thread but info on here and my thread (hopefully) should give me a good idea on prices and componants to go for.
steve
from the above i could build a good engine for not much more than sending the car to the dealers for just the HG replacement??
dont mean to hijack this thread but info on here and my thread (hopefully) should give me a good idea on prices and componants to go for.
steve
Is it worth me getting the piston's before i get the rebore and possibly sending the piston's off with the block? A lot of the kits I've looked at don't include rings so thats another area I'm going to have to look into.
#27
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#29
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Have a search for Enginetuner 2.1 stroker on here, plenty of info about them around inc some of the amazing results we have had from them.
When you have, feel free to pm me for a no obligation quote.
Martyn
When you have, feel free to pm me for a no obligation quote.
Martyn