Manley enough?
 

Hello,
In the new year I'll be looking to fit a 2.1 stroker kit to MY94 WRX. I've looked at a few deals and found a kit which is Manley billet crank, Manley Rods, Manley Pistons, ACL bearings.
My problem is that it is half the price of the RCM equivelant. I'm "only" looking to achieve around 400BHP with other mods, so not looking for massive 600BHP+ figures.
Would this kit be up to the job? I've heard that Manley rod's aren't the strongest?

I think you'll find it's over the top for 400bhp, just fit a newage sti engine for that power.

So its definately strong enough for 400BHP?
Reliability is my main goal, as well as price, I'd rather stick with a CDB. A newage STI engine would cost what £1k? at least i'd imagine, plus mods to hit 400.
I'm looking at £1500 for this kit and would feel safer knowing its billet at the bottom, just in case i decide to go higher. Plus the learning and pride of building it myself.

I wouldn't bother with a billet crank, just fit a newage nitrided Crank. Also how about WMS rods, mine are at 440BHP with no problems and will take much more!

manley rods would be absolutely fine at this level, i am running them with mahle pistons

I spun a bering in my block this fall and im under the process of rebuild. So i bought the Manley strokerpistons, h-beam rods and a OEM 2010 Ver.9 nitrided crank. It's a open deck block, 1999 JDM STi.

You don't need the Manley billet crank, that's just money that you would be better of spending elsewhere. The nitrided crank is more than capable of 400bhp. It costs about $350 from importimageracing, i bought my pistons and rods from them also.

/David

Thanks for all the advice. The 257 nitrided crank with Manley Piston's rods will cost £1050 delivered, but this would cost an additional £250 to have the thrust conversion done. the billet crank with Manley Piston's/Rods will set me back £1500 delivered with no machining required.
£200 extra for a billet crank and no relying on a company to alter the cases either. The cranks not the problem really, its the Rod's/Pistons, because if i choose to go higher, not saying i will just might want to, then I'd have to change Rod's/Pistons. Whereas if i paid an extra £100 or so now i could be comfortable.

But what Rod's/Piston's would i use? Cosworth?

Aren't the Manley pistons and rods rated to atleast a safe 500bhp? I think they say around 600 themselves if im not misstaken. But if you want mega powerfigures then i guess brands such as cosworth, carrillo and so on are more up your alley.

Lots of different opinions regarding Manley rods. I have heard good & bad stories. However if you stay at 400 then i dont think it should be a problem. I 'read' somewhere that Newage STi pistons are actually stronger than the Manleys.

Ofcoure do take everything with a pinch of salt :rolleyes:

ive got manley h beams with custom arp 625 bolts on my 2.3 build its gettin took to 600 horses and im not worried bout them was told its the rod bolt that goes hence uprated rod bolts in my build

Stroker kits
 

Hi there

I am sure everyone understands why certain kits are priced at the lower end of market?

I did a material analysis check of a stroker kit conrod when I was working at HRD F1, (cannot state conrod manufacturer) and I was very surprised, I compared this to a standard Subaru conrod and the Subaru conrod was 100% better material.

Advice would be do the job once and do it right, use a semi closed deck block or if you do have the budget build into a CDB, and use quality internals because performance envelope is improved. If 400/450 bhp is where you want to be there are very well engineer'd kits out there that will do the job, the build process is as important aswell.

Any questions drop us a pm

Cheers

Stephen.

What stroker kit would you recommend for 600+ & what is the difference between long rod stroker kit compared to standard rod size along with stroker pistons?

Thanks Stephen. I'll be building into a CDB, either my own or buying an additional one. I think i'll go Billet crank for the strength and not having to machine the cases for thrust. I don't want "maybe" or it "should" be fine. I could push for 5-600BHP but i'm aiming to build a 600BHP capable engine that reliably can live with 4 for a lot longer. I'd rather spend an extra few hundred on rigid strength, but not if its not 100% required.




I always thought the term stroker came from the longer stroke of the crank rather than altering the length of the rods or pistons.

Do not use a standard Subaru Conrod for anything above 400bhp to be completely on the safe side. I don't care who's analysed what materials there have been plenty of failures of the standard rod beyond that level.

I'd use a Manley H beam over a stock rod everytime. If you can honestly say that you won't go beyoind 400bhp then the manley kit will do you fine. There's absolutely no need to go for a billet crank. The standard EJ257 crank has been more than proven at almost double the level you are looking it.

For 600+ you'd be looking at the Lateral kit which uses a Crower Rod, or The RCM stuff. THis stuff will be more expensive than the Manley stuff but thats because it's an awful lot stronger.

For reference I'm running Pauter rods and a standard EJ257 Crank at just over 600bhp.

Thanks Daz, your car and Frayz's are part of my inspiration to build my own. I have no idea what i can expect the car to put out straight after the build and run in once its 2.1 with a decent ECU and map. I can't say for sure i'd definately stick with 400BHP, i understand like yourself even when others would consider your build done, your looking for the next step.
As i've said a 257 crank would be cheaper, but on a CDB I'd have to machine it for thrust which RCM do for £270. For an extra £200 i could go completely overkill and get the billet. I've even considered going for the 14mm headstud conversion, this coupled with RCM/Cosworth rods and pistons I'd feel completely comfortable with 400BHP and going further if i wanted.

I'll be here in a year telling you how I'd JUST managed to put it together, it won't be an overnight thing, i'm just trying to work out a direction and plan before i begin.

If i explain that it hit me that i've had my WRX for 6 years now and rather than selling up and spending £5k on getting a newer model I'd rather spend £5k on preserving/upgrading/learning plus having the pride in building it myself, inspiring others and teaching my 2 boys along the way how an engine works, maybe you'll know how I'm thinking.

Thanks Kwik

Sounds like you have sorted with a good idea what to use.

Dazdavies I am not saying use a standard rod, I was referring to some conrod manufacturer's material being used is no good. Hence I advise invest in a quality kit from a respected company as I am sure everyone would.

One of my Time Attack customers is running a stock ej25 crank and it is performing brilliantly, area I would invest further in is conrods and pistons.

Cheers

Stephen

Standard EJ257 crank has been to 700bhp and beyond. The likes of Andy F and Mad Hammer and co have more than put that theory to practice.

Kwik,
When you factor in the cost of the block conversion the billet crank makes sense. However make sure you plastiguage EVERYTHING when you build it. Measure, measure and measure again :)

Hi Kwik

If you need any advice or help feel free to contact me, I build absolutely loads of these stroker engines.

Dave coe is running one of my 2.1 wrc inspired engines in Time Attack and we have achieved some great results, currently giving her a refresh for next year.

Cheers

Stephen

Thanks for the sound advice Daz, i'll definately invest in Plastigauge. I'm confused as to whether I'd be measuring to standard figures considering /i'll be using non-standard parts.

Thanks thats very much appreciated. First step in the new year is to find a decent CDB, unless i repair the Kona in my garden and take my car off the road. Its starting to look like people are starting to realise their 93/94 WRX's engines are worth a bit more, so may even buy a spares/repair full car.

very interesting......see my HG failure thread.

from the above i could build a good engine for not much more than sending the car to the dealers for just the HG replacement?? :D

dont mean to hijack this thread but info on here and my thread (hopefully) should give me a good idea on prices and componants to go for.

steve

Just make sure everything is within Subaru Tolerances and you'll not go far wrong. The only exception to this is piston to wall clearance which will be specified by the manufacturers of the forged pistons you'll buy.

I may make the project thread as a step by step guide, not just for others but in case i need to use it myself in the future lol. Also when, not if, i go wrong hopefully people will help point my in the right direction.

Is it worth me getting the piston's before i get the rebore and possibly sending the piston's off with the block? A lot of the kits I've looked at don't include rings so thats another area I'm going to have to look into.

Yes, get the bores matched to the pistons. Wisecos and Cosworth Pistons come with the rings, pins and circlips.

:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy

what a great idea :thumb:

Steve i've pm'd you a few links that may help regarding your HG rebuild.

:thumb:

An Enginetuner built one ;) !

As you're an authorised advertiser MartynJ, do you install stroker kits?

Have a search for Enginetuner 2.1 stroker on here, plenty of info about them around inc some of the amazing results we have had from them.
When you have, feel free to pm me for a no obligation quote.

Martyn

Lol :thumb: