Hi all,

I'm driving to the alps this winter, and I need to get some snow chains. Every manufacturer of snow chains says that a 4WD / AWD car needs chains on both sets of wheels, but the Subaru owners manual (which admittedly isn't the most accurate thing I've ever read, and covers all types of Impreza) says they should only be placed on the front wheels.

Does anyone know which is the correct advice?

The car's a 2005 WRX.

Thanks

JackieBoy

 

I wouldnt bother with them just get a set if part worn winter tyres while you can as once the bad weather starts they are impossible to find, I got some last year will be swapping them on car shortly

 

All the 4wd vehicles ive driven/been in had them on all 4 wheels, though you may also require proper winter tyres too, depends on which country your going to?

Tony

 

I've spent a lot of time in Norway pal and I can confirm that even though your car is 4x4, only the front wheels require chains! Hope this helps and I hope people don't give their own opinion when they don't reaally know jack all!

 

my Audi Quattro manual says put chains on the front only

whereas my Toyota Landcruiser manual says to put them on the rear only

so I would do what the manual says tbh

 

I spent alot of time in Germany, it use to snow quite a bit there, all our 4x4 vehicles had chains front and rear, mainly because they didnt have snow tyres (though they did have off road tyres), so its not my own opinion, its what we all use to do

Though personally id just fit winter/snow tyres, chances are it could be a legal requirement, it is in Germany if your driving in the Alps in winter.

Tony

 

This is worth reading

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice...ow-chains.html

Tony

 

Totally agree!

 

Maybe laws differ from country to country but when it comes to driving in the snow il always take on Scandinavian advise over anything else dude, want a dig to you btw mate, just seems a lot of people comment on things when they havnt a clue what there talking about

 

Not just the Scandinavian countries but all countries where are winter tyres used in winter.

In Scandinavia are used too Studded winter tyres,which is not allowed in more countries etc.(in most countries are allowed,only when is too much snow or very icy conditions,but when you will be used on clearly good road you will get points/penalty)

I would go still with winter tyres against the snow chains,but in some cases i would go with Snow tyres and snow chains combos.


Jura

 

Snow chains are a legal requirement in France over a certain height if the gendarmes stop you in deep snow whether you have winter tyres on or not. There are snow chain laybys at the bottom of most ski resort roads and if les flics decide it's snow chain time then you will not be passing them without. Having siad that I've often slithered up roads when the cops aren't about and yet been forced to put chains on when the snow is far less on other days. They don't like a lot of the newer stuff as well e.g. snow socks so if you're off to France make sure you've got the approved gear. Of course, with global warming etc I've hardly ever used chains for the last 10 years or so but you are expected to have them in the car anyway.

Always on the front in multiple cars I've had and 30 years+ of skiing - steering and 70% of stopping is done by the front wheels...

 

I'm a bit of a winter tyre evangelist so excuse me if I come across a bit over-zealous!

I've driven my subaru (which is a legacy twin turbo) through the alps in the height of winter a couple of times, en-route to the Tuscan mountains in Italy which also had lots of snow. The first time was 4 winters ago and I'd heard that winter tyres were compulsory in some regions as well as snow chains, so I bought a set of Nokian WR G2 winter tyres and a set of snow chains on ebay.

The nokians are amazing, and worth every penny as far as I'm concerned. Contrary to popular british opnion, they are not only for use in snow, and they help with grip levels in UK winters massively, even if snow never makes an appearance. I have mine on from around end of oct to late march/early april. They are far superior to summer tyre even on dry winter roads, but particularly on damp or wet roads. In snow they come into their own and even on sheet ice they offer astonishing levels of grip.

In many cases AWD will get you going in snow where other cars won't budge, even on summer tyres due to the LSDs doing their job, but they don't help at all when it comes to handling or stopping - that is where you need winter tyres for proper safety when driving in snow and ice. Yes, studded tyres will perform better in ice but they're not legal in the UK and the people who claim studless winter tyres will not help on ice haven't tried it - I can confirm they make a massive difference.

Anyway, as for your trip. I would recommend you get a set of winter tyres fitted and leave them on until end of march. You should probably get a set of snow chains too as they are a legal requirement in some alpine areas. Like I said I bought a set of chains as well but the only time they've been out of the box was when I lent them to my friend to fit to his Audi. I've never needed to use them despite 12" of snow and sheet ice. The nokians coupled with the subaru AWD system is all you will ever need. The chains are just to satisfy any police checks.

All that said, if you must use snow chains on a subaru, I would highly recommend fitting to all 4 wheels for the same reason it's not a good idea to mix tyre sizes (to save the diff from stress). IF you have front wheels on chains (and thus gripping) and the back wheels spinning you're going to put unnecessary strain on your centre LSD. Not to mention the back end will want to slide about.

In my opinion if you drive to the alps and use snow chains, driving will be an inconvenient and stressful part of the trip, whereas with the winter tyres fitted you won't have to worry about it and you will actually enjoy the driving. The nokians inspire so much confidence for me that I actually relish the snowy weather and can't wait to take the subaru out on the white roads when it comes.

That's not to suggest that winter tyres allow you to carry on as normal in snowy weather. Of course you still need to proceed with caution and adjust your driving style and attitude to suit the conditions, but the degree to which you need to adjust your actual driving will be much smaller and you won't be ****ting yourself at every corner.

I've just worn out my nokians after their 3rd winter of use plus I left them on all summer this year. 2 are worn to the limit and two have about 4.5mm left (my fault for not rotating them properly).

Finally, the advice to take part-worn winter tyres to the alps is not good. As well intentioned as it was, part worn winter tyres tend to be sold in the UK where they have come from the continent. Winter tyres are not considered safe below 4mm of tread and are not legally recognised in countries that require them once below that level. Hence why they tend to be remove and sold as part worn in the UK. For UK use it might be ok but for the alps you could get in trouble. Furthermore, I noticed a marked difference in winter performance once the nokains starting getting below 4mm.

I have a new set of nokians arriving today which will give me at least another 4 winters of good service. Possibly 5 if I don't **** about and leave them on over summer again . I will also be driving to the alps this winter and am looking forward to it!

 

Hi mate, have you got the link to where your getting your Nokians from?
Cheers

 

yes mate just received them today from lovetyres.com

If you sign up on uklegacy.com and send a PM as per page 4 of this thread, you might even be able to get a discount if you're quick... but their prices are very good anyway. I've previously bought from mytyres but I think I'll be using lovetyres from now on.

 

Thanks for all of your responses.

I checked with my local Subaru garage today, and they confirmed that Subaru's recommendation is to put snow chains on the front wheels only for my model of car. In reality, I would only expect to be putting them on for the 10 miles between the autoroute and the resort and even then just to stay legal - I've driven in snow in the Alps in some terrible FWD rental cars before without ever putting chains on.

To clarify my original question a bit, I will be driving to a French resort, and will be in France from Calais to the resort. French law is to carry snow chains, but there is no legal requirement for winter tyres in France.

I am quite interested in the winter tyre option given the glowing feedback some commenters have left - my only question(s) are how much do they cost, and where do you store them in the summer? My current tyres are only 9 months old and cost a shocking amount (Bridgestones, but still), and I don't have a garage.

thanks

JackieBoy

 

Rental cars in that region would have all-season tyres on at least which won't be as effective as decent winter tyres but will make a big difference none the less.

Cost - well it depends a lot on your tyre size. 3 years ago a set of 4 Nokian WR G2's in 215/45 R17 V cost me about £89 each. Last year at the end of october the same tyres were pretty much the same price from mytyres. two weeks later when the north of the UK got the first appearance of snow they shot up to £120 and kept climing to over £200 each for the same tyres that had cost me £360 for a full set two years before. This price hike was obviously due to demand. They have since settled a bit bit still higher than I paid for my last set.

I've just got a new set arrived yesterday - Nokain WR A3s in 205/45 R16 H which were about £350 from lovetyres.com (best prices I've found this season for winter tyres by far). I would have got at least another winter out of the old ones if I hadn't left them on all summer this year. Two of them still have 4.5mm but the other two are at about 2mm or less and are hopeless even on just damp roads, so it was time for a new set and I'll use the two decent ones as spares.

You can expect to get at least 4 winters out of a new set of Nokians, possibly 5. Any longer than that and tyre rubber starts to degrade anyway, but once they are too warn for winter use you should still get a good summer out of them and if you get a V rated tyre the performace is pretty acceptable in summer although not as good as dedicated performance summer tyres.

As for storage, I keep them behind the shed on a different set of wheels, under a dedicated tyre storage post/cover. Admitedly if you are short for space this could be a problem but if you can find somewhere to squeeze them in it's well worth it, particularly if you will be heading to the alps but even if not they are so much better even on wet winter roads without snow or ice. Add one or both of those and with the AWD you will still be on one of the best setups available on the road.

 

Rental cars in that region would have all-season tyres on at least which won't be as effective as decent winter tyres but will make a big difference none the less.

Cost - well it depends a lot on your tyre size. 3 years ago a set of 4 Nokian WR G2's in 215/45 R17 V cost me about £89 each. Last year at the end of october the same tyres were pretty much the same price from mytyres. two weeks later when the north of the UK got the first appearance of snow they shot up to £120 and kept climing to over £200 each for the same tyres that had cost me £360 for a full set two years before. This price hike was obviously due to demand. They have since settled a bit bit still higher than I paid for my last set.

I've just got a new set arrived yesterday - Nokain WR A3s in 205/45 R16 H which were about £350 from lovetyres.com (best prices I've found this season for winter tyres by far). I would have got at least another winter out of the old ones if I hadn't left them on all summer this year. Two of them still have 4.5mm but the other two are at about 2mm or less and are hopeless even on just damp roads, so it was time for a new set and I'll use the two decent ones as spares.

You can expect to get at least 4 winters out of a new set of Nokians, possibly 5. Any longer than that and tyre rubber starts to degrade anyway, but once they are too warn for winter use you should still get a good summer out of them and if you get a V rated tyre the performace is pretty acceptable in summer although not as good as dedicated performance summer tyres.

As for storage, I keep them behind the shed on a different set of wheels, under a dedicated tyre storage post/cover. Admitedly if you are short for space this could be a problem but if you can find somewhere to squeeze them in it's well worth it, particularly if you will be heading to the alps but even if not they are so much better even on wet winter roads without snow or ice. Add one or both of those and with the AWD you will still be on one of the best setups available on the road.