Keeping the filter cold ??
12 August 2011, 08:35 AM
#1
Keeping the filter cold ??
Guys,
Car is a 97 STI V3.
Running mafless with large green cotton air filter.
I find that the air filter is getting very hot while driving, I'm using a cold air feed to help keep temps down but the heat from the engine bay is still getting the filter warm.
Is there anything on the market to help ?? Was thinking of maybe some sort of box to house the filter. I understand some guys fit there's into the wing but as I'm running FMIC there really isn't the room plus the filter is huge so don't think it's an option.
Anyone have any ideas or pics.
Thanks,
Matt.
Car is a 97 STI V3.
Running mafless with large green cotton air filter.
I find that the air filter is getting very hot while driving, I'm using a cold air feed to help keep temps down but the heat from the engine bay is still getting the filter warm.
Is there anything on the market to help ?? Was thinking of maybe some sort of box to house the filter. I understand some guys fit there's into the wing but as I'm running FMIC there really isn't the room plus the filter is huge so don't think it's an option.
Anyone have any ideas or pics.
Thanks,
Matt.
12 August 2011, 10:53 AM
#3
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Rap it in an ice bag when out in it !
Seriously tho I've just ordered some inlet spacers from carl davey to keep inlet temps down , and your issue is my next concern , I've seen people box them in but in my opinion this will only make things worse as there is less air moving around the filter have you fitted a reverse scoop as this is my route to keep engine bay temps down.
Seriously tho I've just ordered some inlet spacers from carl davey to keep inlet temps down , and your issue is my next concern , I've seen people box them in but in my opinion this will only make things worse as there is less air moving around the filter have you fitted a reverse scoop as this is my route to keep engine bay temps down.
12 August 2011, 11:18 AM
#4
Was thinking about a reverse scoop.. But after reading one of Harveys posts I have decided against it. He did some tests and found engine bay temps to be higher when using a reverse scoop compared to standard scoop. The standard scoop also allows air to cool the gearbox.
I was using a mini scoop above the filter but didn't like the look in the end so that's now gone. I'm thinking some sort of enclosure with a direct cold air feed is the best route, just hoping that someone else has tried it to give me some pointers.
I was using a mini scoop above the filter but didn't like the look in the end so that's now gone. I'm thinking some sort of enclosure with a direct cold air feed is the best route, just hoping that someone else has tried it to give me some pointers.
12 August 2011, 11:21 AM
#5
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Harvey has Matty! He recommends a carbon fibre box/enclosure around the filter, with some sort of heat reflective material on the hot side.
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13 August 2011, 09:02 AM
#9
Don't box it in just run a cold air divider along the chassis rail and all the way up to the underside of the bonnet.Then feed more cold/external air into the filter area than it consumes. If you want to be really clever then fit some door seal trim or similar on the top egde.
Best to use carbon fibre and not stainless or aluminium and put a heat blanket on the side facing the engine.
The K+N above looks nice but the engine still breathes engine bay air and the gains will be small for a lot of wonga.
Best to use carbon fibre and not stainless or aluminium and put a heat blanket on the side facing the engine.
The K+N above looks nice but the engine still breathes engine bay air and the gains will be small for a lot of wonga.
13 August 2011, 07:43 PM
#10
Don't box it in just run a cold air divider along the chassis rail and all the way up to the underside of the bonnet.Then feed more cold/external air into the filter area than it consumes. If you want to be really clever then fit some door seal trim or similar on the top egde.
Best to use carbon fibre and not stainless or aluminium and put a heat blanket on the side facing the engine.
The K+N above looks nice but the engine still breathes engine bay air and the gains will be small for a lot of wonga.
Best to use carbon fibre and not stainless or aluminium and put a heat blanket on the side facing the engine.
The K+N above looks nice but the engine still breathes engine bay air and the gains will be small for a lot of wonga.
if you use stainless or alluminium,will this be ok to use some heat reflective/carbon fibre wrap?would it do the same job?
13 August 2011, 07:49 PM
#11
I've divided my RCMS cone off from the rest of the engine bay DIY style (Carbon sheet from Harvey)........trick I found was to make one in cardboard first. When finished, splitting some silicone / rubber hose and pushing it over the cut edge worked well 
Shaun
Shaun
13 August 2011, 08:48 PM
#13
that sounds like what im thinking of doing but didnt want to spend silly £££s on carbon fibre,how thick was the stuff you used and at what cost?
13 August 2011, 08:54 PM
#14
I got a carbon sheet offcut from Harvey and was probably just a couple of mm's thick. Glued on some reflective sheet (aluminium foil). I can't remember the cost so can't have been much. I guess you could use alloy sheet with some quilted heatshield ?
I'll ave a look for a pic later
Shaun
I'll ave a look for a pic later
Shaun
14 August 2011, 08:51 AM
#17
carbon fibre that is rigid is very expensive.
if you use stainless or alluminium,will this be ok to use some heat reflective/carbon fibre wrap?would it do the same job?
if you use stainless or alluminium,will this be ok to use some heat reflective/carbon fibre wrap?would it do the same job?
When customers bring cars to me I make these things so I know what I am talking about. I guess the cost of the carbon fibre used is around £70 maybe £75 and good quality heat mat with good thermal properties will be about half of that.
The carbon fibre I have is for my own use. Cutting it to size takes time and I don't want to end up with a large wasteage on a sheet because of the different sizes cut. It is not an attractive item to send through the post so you should source your own carbon fibre locally. The heat mat I use comes from Nimbus Motorsport. Until I have the template cut in cardboard that I am happy with I do not cut or put holes in the carbon fibre sheet.
Correction. Carbon fibre is not rigid and a thin sheet can flex adequately to ensure that making a cold air divider is not beyond the ability of a reasonaby confident DIY man.
It is also light. I appreciate that acquiring a buck shee sheet of aluminium or stainless is much easier but it is not a good solution.
Unlike aluminium or stainless, carbon fibre cannot be bent sharply through 45 degrees or whatever but I make cold air dividers which are flat sheets from the chassis rail to the bonnet with rubber door trim or other suitable edging trim on the top. This is a flat sheet with appropriate holes cut in for the induction and possibly vacuum/boost control pipework from the BSV.
Substantially it holds itself in position because of the pipes running through it but you can put 2 "L" brackets to the chassis rail for additional attachment.
I put the rough face towards the engine and glue on an identical section of heat mat. Silver reflective surface facing the engine. The attractive carbon fibre finish is facing the inner wing.
The effectiveness of this relies on getting more air in to the cold air area than the engine consumes or allowing that area to feed through air forced in to the inner wing. Only a slight positive pressure difference is required.
I have nothing here to photograph and looking back through old archives will take some time but I will look for these later in the day but I am under pressure of time.
14 August 2011, 12:11 PM
#18
I have gone over this with you on another thread and by PM or email.
When customers bring cars to me I make these things so I know what I am talking about. I guess the cost of the carbon fibre used is around £70 maybe £75 and good quality heat mat with good thermal properties will be about half of that.
The carbon fibre I have is for my own use. Cutting it to size takes time and I don't want to end up with a large wasteage on a sheet because of the different sizes cut. It is not an attractive item to send through the post so you should source your own carbon fibre locally. The heat mat I use comes from Nimbus Motorsport. Until I have the template cut in cardboard that I am happy with I do not cut or put holes in the carbon fibre sheet.
Correction. Carbon fibre is not rigid and a thin sheet can flex adequately to ensure that making a cold air divider is not beyond the ability of a reasonaby confident DIY man.
It is also light. I appreciate that acquiring a buck shee sheet of aluminium or stainless is much easier but it is not a good solution.
Unlike aluminium or stainless, carbon fibre cannot be bent sharply through 45 degrees or whatever but I make cold air dividers which are flat sheets from the chassis rail to the bonnet with rubber door trim or other suitable edging trim on the top. This is a flat sheet with appropriate holes cut in for the induction and possibly vacuum/boost control pipework from the BSV.
Substantially it holds itself in position because of the pipes running through it but you can put 2 "L" brackets to the chassis rail for additional attachment.
I put the rough face towards the engine and glue on an identical section of heat mat. Silver reflective surface facing the engine. The attractive carbon fibre finish is facing the inner wing.
The effectiveness of this relies on getting more air in to the cold air area than the engine consumes or allowing that area to feed through air forced in to the inner wing. Only a slight positive pressure difference is required.
I have nothing here to photograph and looking back through old archives will take some time but I will look for these later in the day but I am under pressure of time.
When customers bring cars to me I make these things so I know what I am talking about. I guess the cost of the carbon fibre used is around £70 maybe £75 and good quality heat mat with good thermal properties will be about half of that.
The carbon fibre I have is for my own use. Cutting it to size takes time and I don't want to end up with a large wasteage on a sheet because of the different sizes cut. It is not an attractive item to send through the post so you should source your own carbon fibre locally. The heat mat I use comes from Nimbus Motorsport. Until I have the template cut in cardboard that I am happy with I do not cut or put holes in the carbon fibre sheet.
Correction. Carbon fibre is not rigid and a thin sheet can flex adequately to ensure that making a cold air divider is not beyond the ability of a reasonaby confident DIY man.
It is also light. I appreciate that acquiring a buck shee sheet of aluminium or stainless is much easier but it is not a good solution.
Unlike aluminium or stainless, carbon fibre cannot be bent sharply through 45 degrees or whatever but I make cold air dividers which are flat sheets from the chassis rail to the bonnet with rubber door trim or other suitable edging trim on the top. This is a flat sheet with appropriate holes cut in for the induction and possibly vacuum/boost control pipework from the BSV.
Substantially it holds itself in position because of the pipes running through it but you can put 2 "L" brackets to the chassis rail for additional attachment.
I put the rough face towards the engine and glue on an identical section of heat mat. Silver reflective surface facing the engine. The attractive carbon fibre finish is facing the inner wing.
The effectiveness of this relies on getting more air in to the cold air area than the engine consumes or allowing that area to feed through air forced in to the inner wing. Only a slight positive pressure difference is required.
I have nothing here to photograph and looking back through old archives will take some time but I will look for these later in the day but I am under pressure of time.
im not questioning wether you know what you are talking about as i dont doubt you by no means....just weighing up cheaper options for this rather than the outlay for carbon fibre.
it seems quite an expensive job for just literally putting in a small heatshield.
i think it can be done by having a cardboard template done and then maybe having it made in fibreglass,this could possibly work out cheaper.
i havent even started to price fibreglass but when i look at how much roughly i need in carbon fibre and the prices of it,it does make me wonder,if money was no object then no doubt harvey your ideas are probably the best for the job.......but for us porpers?
14 August 2011, 02:11 PM
#20
Some ill disposed, twisted, degenerate, low life with a serious character flaw gave me a computer virus some time ago and I have just realised I have lost a folder full of photographs while looking for more photos for this post so the above will have to do for now. Next time I make one I will take photographs. The quality and simplicity of these has moved on a pace from the above which is one of the first ones I did and I do not insulate the side facing the inner wing now.
If you are in to cheapness which is not a bad thing you could consider a sheet of polypropylene or plastic and these would be available from someone like plastic construction. These would have the advantage of being easy to weld with the right facilities and easier to work with than stainless or aluminium and probably cheaper if you are actually purchasing the material yourself.
Just to add, I think that properly managing the heat under the bonnet, keeping the hot bits hot and the cold bits cold can add to power and responsiveness for not a lot of expenditure and a bit of your own time.
Do not insulate the hot pipe from the turbo compressor to the intercooler as discharge temperature when you are giving it the beans will exceed under bonnet temperature so initial cooling of the compressed charge can start as soon as the air leaves the turbo.
Last edited by harvey; 14 August 2011 at 02:15 PM.
17 August 2011, 08:03 AM
#27
We need the car here for a day, half a day certainly as there are always interuptions.
Each car is different.
If you want to make your own, start with plenty cardboard blank sheets so you make mistakes on the cardboard and perfect the shape/dimensions until you are happy to cut the carbon fibre.
Each car is different.
If you want to make your own, start with plenty cardboard blank sheets so you make mistakes on the cardboard and perfect the shape/dimensions until you are happy to cut the carbon fibre.
17 August 2011, 10:29 AM
#28
Not sure if it will work out yet, but over the next few days ill be fitting a small fan (ebay gsxr750 radiator fan for £15) to the outside of the inner wing. This will pull more air from the vent in the side of the bumper and be controlled by this adjustable thermostat in the filter area of the engine bay.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...=STRK:MEWAX:IT
Havent yet made the filter divider panel, but i will be going with an aluminium jobby (heat matted on the hot side) as i think the pressure differentil provided by this fan should counteract the heat soak from the engine bay.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...=STRK:MEWAX:IT
Havent yet made the filter divider panel, but i will be going with an aluminium jobby (heat matted on the hot side) as i think the pressure differentil provided by this fan should counteract the heat soak from the engine bay.
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