speedy steve

95 wrx wagon, got really smokie ( blue ) on startup then began making loud ticking chapping noise ( not as loud as big ends but similar sound )

pulled turbo ( smoke source ) shaft doesnt seem to have axial float but can feel a click from side to side ( how much float is acceptable ?? )

compression test on cold engine minus turbo open throttle turning over on decent battery gave ..... wait for it..... 35 - 40 psi on 3 cylinders and 0 psi on cylinder under turbo !!!!!!! its a chepo ebay gauge but tried repeatedly on each cylider and its quite consistent, there is a small valve inside the gauge tube and there is a little compression on the dodgier cylinder but not enough to open the valve

weird thing is the car was running pretty well before the smoke and noises isnt it weird that all the cylinders are so bad ?? ok one appears to have failed big time ( im guessing rings ??? )

is there any way I could run on 3 intentionally ? ( as by the looks of the compression I probably have been for a while ?? )

looks like another engine out job........... anyone want a complete wagon with a dead engine ....

honestly im seriously tempted to just scrap her this time.....

SS

Dougmy06wrx

iTrader: (4)

Sorry about your situation! If you are serious about getting rid how much? Any pics?

Doug

dj219957

side to side play is ok. end fload (in and out) is not.

russellgarwood4174

how much side to side play is acceptable? i removed mine today ive also got the clicking movement, also looks like the blades have been touching the casing though!! i removed mine as i was getting a horrible rattling sound when i blip the throttle!! when i hold a screw driver to my ear and rev it sounds horrible!! sorry to but in on thread im just a bit nervy as im awaiting a second hand turbo hope it is the problem!!

dj219957

if its touching the sides then its ****ed! that is too much!

scubbay

iTrader: (61)

sounds like a melted piston.

speedy steve

OK now I'm really confused, pulled the engine striped off head LH from front of engine.

No damage to cams or head all valves present and no sign of piston contact, piston looks good from top, tried turning crank back and fore and pushing piston after top of stroke and cant feel any movement of con rod bearings

piston can be wiggled slightly within bore at top of stroke but does feel supported by rings ( feels same as other piston in same side of block )

I guess I need to strip the block completely to check rings...

Any ideas what the ticking sound could have been and where has all my compression gone ??????

Can I try using fluid ( say thin oil ) filling half stroked cylinders and comparing leakage rate to casing across rings to confirm this is the problem before stripping any further ?



SS

WMS

iTrader: (2)

Check the exhaust manifold/exhaust ports for signs of oil, if the engine has lost compression you should see which cylinder is passing the oil by doing this. It could be the ring land on the piston has cracked and not obvious to see from the top of the piston, this does usually score the bore though?......Andy

jonny gav

iTrader: (1)

The clicking sound will most likely be a broken ring land unfortunately.

speedy steve

thanks for the input guys, there isnt really any massive visible scoring there is more carbon deposit right at the top of the cylinder on number 3 than the other one ( cylinder below turbo is number 3 isnt it ? ) one very small bright line thats not really detectable by dragging a finger nail across it

If it was a 80's bike it would be fine on an impreza I have no idea ??

Ill check the exhaust manifold for the source of the oil, it was pretty "wet" on removal but I also had a oil leak from exhaust cam seal on this side so theres a bit of external stuff too

Stupid question but what are ring lands ? im guessing the piston area between the rings ? so its definately a piston out job at least to check that, if i pull this one piston and the problem is obvious ill be happy enough just worried about not finding the cause...

Also why do I have such ( 40 psi ! ) low but very even compression in all the other cylinders ? ( other than my gauge is rubbish .. thats certainly true but it reads my tyre pressures more or less correctly ) I would have expected at least double that ??

SS

WMS

iTrader: (2)

The ring lands are the area between the rings, they are prone to failing on non forges subaru pistons, if you look up into the exhaust ports you should be able to trace the problem cylinder? The low reading on the one cylinder will be the problem one........I would think?

his-n-her-scoobs

iTrader: (5)

And check your ebay comp tester on a known good engine, just to check it.

Tho I don't think it will alter the 0psi reading much, but will give you an idea on the other cylinders.

speedy steve

pulled the piston this morning and sure enough theres a 1.25" long section of the piston land missing on the low side of number 3

upper ring there but bent, next area of land dissapeared next ring also vapourised for 1.25" and cracked in a couple of other places round circumference next land vapourised then oil ring intact but siezed and nipped in groove.. so defo the problem, the bore is very good surprisingly enough I cleaned it up a little with scotchbrite cloth to femove the deposits of carbon and its amazingly good condition in my unprofessional opinion

I have another block with a dead crank can I just swap a piston and good to go ? ( does it havee to be number 3 ? )

i realise the "bits" have gone somewhere im kinda desperate to keep this minimum cost and effort and just get her running again so im gonna risk just changing the filter and going for it... am I totally insane to even concider this ?

thanks again for all your tips guys.

SS

speedy steve

anyone know where I can get one camshaft oil seal ? or possibly a pair ? what kind of temperature is the head likely to get to ? I can get rotary nitrile seals 45x32x7 which is pretty darned close for £2 each but not sure if the nitrile will take the temperature ?
SS

bigsinky

new oil pump and modine chum. a must on a new engine build. trust me. cheaper than doing the engine build twice.

saiklon

About swapping pistons, stock Subaru engines have two piston sizes, A and B, if you check the top of your block you will see some stamping that looks like AA/AB (The / indicates a new line). As long as you swap with the correct size you should be fine.

However the missing piston chunks went somewhere. If it was my engine, I would at a minimum replace/remove the oil modine. Disassemble and measure the oil pump for correct clearances and visually inspect it for damage. Replace bottom end bearings. Clean block and sump.

Since you seem to be doing the work yourself this will cost you almost nothing apart from the time it will take.

speedy steve

OK guys, for a change I'm gonna listen to advise

I have swaped the piston over from my other dead engine the original had no marks on the crown other than the "R" the replacement I used also has the "R" but has a single "A" too... the fit feels perfect and I measured with an ancient pair of vernier calipers and the diams were within about 5thou of each other, i hope thats close enough it all feels nice and smooth no funny noises or anything.

I will pull the sump and oil pump....... even though the mechanical butcher in me is desperate just to try it all as is

I actually have a spare pump from the last engine failure & Im sure between the 2 of them one will be OK ( even if its a combo of both )

That modline thing was really expensive last time I tried to find one ( the only ones I could find cheap were of dubious origin ( dead engines ) )

The bits ive lost from the piston ....... if they went past the piston downwards ( there is no sign of any damage downwards on the piston ) it must have been in incredibly small "bits" or is it more likely they were forced upwards and spat out the valves ( some carbon deposit on the piston above upper ring )

Im gonna leave the engine for a couple of weeks dig the bike out and enjoy the weather.......

SS

saiklon

The modine can be deleted. Some old Legacy blocks (about 1992 or so) don't have them. You can therefore remove yours and use the fitting from the Legacy block.

I read a thread somewhere (can't find it) where someone removed it and did not see any significant changes in oil warm up time and hot oil temperature.

dazdavies

iTrader: (22)

My advice and I'll be frank about this and apologise in advance is to stop f8cking around and cutting corners and do the job properly. That means stripping fully and cleaning the block including taking the blanking plugs and cleaning the oil ways out properly.

As mentioned above the debris went somewhere so you need to be sure the engine is clean prior to reassembly . You've done the hard bit already so another few hours wont do any harm. If you bodge it you WILL pay the price later and wish you'd done it properly.

speedy steve

hi guys, ok about 12,000 miles later cars been running very well no problems at all until now ........ blue smoke again ....... pulled intercooler a bit of oil residue in there, a noticable coating on inlet rubber btn intercooler and throttle butterfly housing turbo float radially not much worse than it was 12k ago, a little bit of axial now though I would say maybe 0.5mm

Compression test with new gauge.. not my nasty wildly inaccurate ebay job
1 - 161psi , 2 - 163psi , 3 - 172psi ( this is the one I changed a piston in ) , 4 - 159psi so that all looks good

I'm suspecting turbo.... again...... other possibility would be valve seals ? when I rebuilt engine last time a couple of these didnt seem to sit exactly right ....

If its yet another turbo I think I'm gonna call it a day and give up the scooby game its been fun but I'm getting tired of engine rebuilds by the roadside..

Anyone interested in a complete 1995 wrx estate auto with scabby red paint a smokey exhaust and dead central locking.. probably best considered for spares or repair ?

SS

speedy steve

tried another couple of things :-

with intercooler pulled slapped spark plugs back in and fired her up ( obviously air straight into throttle body no filtering or airmeter ) turbo outlet open too..

Started ok bit spluttery but thats no surprise given whats missing engine light on ( obviously ) as infinately big air leak & no air meter

air from turbo when blipping is a good solid and clean flow no significant oil content ( clean cloth in front of output stayed clean ) lots and lots of air though... ( moe than I expected )

pulled oil filler cap and put hand over it while blipping throttle definately no positive presure if anything a small vacuum

Still lots of blue smoke from exhaust..... im thinking valve seals... so yet anotther engine pull ??

any opinions welcome ( other than stop ****ing about and buy a new one )

SS

speedy steve

really grabbing at straws now, pulled all the crankcase recyc hoses fittings and PCV to give them a clean.... they were all horrible and very clogged up with oily residue PCV valve was not springing at all just falling from open to closed as you turned it in hand , throttle body full of same slimy oily gunge..

everything cleaned up and pulled the PCV to bits ( gentle grinder and bolt with hammer to push the guts out of it, spring was totally disintegrated )
rebuilt with a fat pen spring and now it closes very lightly but I can easilly suck or blow it open with mouth pressure, reversed blowing no pass through so its better than it was and im guessing the close spring force should be tiny based on the original spring..

Rebuilt PCV system and throttle body ( intercooler still off and no airfilter ( therefore no air flow meter )

Started car bit of blue smoke for a couple of mins, wedged the throttle open a little to hold about 2500rpm white smoke slowly stopped , blue smoke gone away too.. now im left with a little black smoke and an intermittent missfire..

Im guessing with no maf and CEL on im in overfueling mode hence the black smoke... that or/and I have a cylinder that isnt firing.. so maybe a bit of progress ???

Gonna pull the plugs tomorrow and see if they tell me anything.. clean them up spotless and stick them back ( they were all pretty black looking last time out but basically all the same, well one was grey and perfect looking but the rest black but not "wet")

Turbo by the way which is obviously spinning when engine is at 2500rpm is generating a tiny amount of oil on the discharge side but not much, after about 10mins running, fans kicking in may be 2 or 3 times tiny dampness to the turbo outlet but definately not dripping or visible, ill leave it to cool overnight and see if it condenses to be more worrying....

Please guys someone encourage me here am I geting anywhere or fooling myself, I've got a nasty old honda civic to keep me mobile but really need to get the scooby mobile again and MOT'ed ( its overdue, hence why im careing about the emmisions ) I really cant afford to put any more extra cash into her right now, id hate it to be a turbo... the last ebay job I bought was worse than useless and I really cant afford a new one !!

SS

RICHARD J

iTrader: (4)

Sounds like turbo but if you really suspect PCV then blanc it off & fit a catch can to keep the oil out of the inlet. This is a good mod to do anyway. I'm sure you can find a good used turbo off here rather than a knackered EBAY one. Good luck.

speedy steve

Thanks for the responce Richard, ( is this site normaly so quiet these days ? used to be you'd get loads of comments in a day .. its been a while since i've had any problems ) should a turbo be totally dry on the air side or is a tiny amount of leakage normal ?

Im only asking cause im my experience no seal is perfect ?

Your probably right re turbo.... I'd just hate to buy another one and find it wasnt the problem...

SS

RICHARD J

iTrader: (4)

There is a test you can do. Remove turbo, clean all oil out of inlet & exh side with brake cleaner so it's bone dry. Now slowly drip oil into both the oil feed & return ports & place a piece of gaffs tape over each port to hold the oil in.Now leave the turbo on the bench overnight. Any trace of oil in inlet or exh & the turbo seal is shot.
Slight play side to side in the shaft is fine but if oil weeps through it's shot anyway. Should not be much oil in the inlet but this may have come from the breathers & in particular the PCV,so blanc it & fit a catch can,an old 1L oil bottle will do for now.

speedy steve

Thanks Richard, ill try it today

SS

stedee

iTrader: (4)

i like your have a go attitude , fair play. does sound turbo related though if you are getting an oil discharge at 2500 and thats without any pressure.

turbos are quite cheap especially the old td05s, usually they are a quite strong turbo aswell.

i read the bit about theres only 5 thou difference between your replaced piston lol and its still going

speedy steve

tried pulling the turbo, cleaning and drying filling with oil, no trace of oil in either exhaust or "air" track, no sign of lower filled level in oil lines... so im gonna stick her back on along with the intercooler and the cleaned up PCV setup and try again...

Re the turbo its a td04 with l-bow inlet, loads of allegedly good td05's going about not so many td04's and they all seam to be straight entry.... if it does turn out to be turbo... which is looking very likely especially based on feedback from you guys can I change over the compressor housings easilly ?

Thanks for the encouragement guys..

SS

RICHARD J

iTrader: (4)

Try the turbo both right way up & upside down whilst checking for leaks. Mine only leaked with oil return at top or upside down. If it's bone dry the oil is coming from the breathers. It may be just a build up from years or use, but it may be due to a worn engine.

speedy steve

well looks like it was just dirty lines and a jammed PCV valve, tried the turbo upside down on its side you name it no sign of any oil escape, built it all back up

On initial startup when cold shes pretty steamy ( white mist ) which clears up after about 5 mins at high tickover to completely clean exhaust no smell or smoke. Ive been starting her up and running her "on my private road" for the last few days and this happens every time ( no apparent loss of water from cooling system ) once warmed properly stopping and restarting blipping throttle or driving on max boost doesnt provoke any smoke or steam

Im hopefully shes OK now and am gonna go for an MOT once I manage to aquire a new battery as my current one has given up the ghost

Ive been offered the chance to relocate to the US with work which I think im gonna do so once MOT'ed im gonna sell the scooby, anyone interested ? check my posts over the years we have had some pretty scary history and her paint is typical japanese faded and scabby red but I've had fun, not looking for silly money just what shes worth, only mods are ESL ECU chip, decat pipe ( with CAT pipe for MOT's ) and a load resister in the prnsmission to speed up and harshen the shift a little ( all caneasily be reversed ) in fact the ESL map is on a switch

Give me a shout soon or she goes on Ebay which is a sad way to go..

SS