Matt Sills

iTrader: (1)

Hi, I'm in the process of preparing my JDM Impreza gc8 type R version 4 for a spot of hillclimbing and was woundering what engine i should install, V6,7 or 8?.
Reliabilty is a key concern and the engine will be matted to the DCCD Gearbox.
Any thoughts appreciated

eclipse performance

iTrader: (5)

It depends really on weather you want a standard engine or if your going to rebuild one with forged pistons & uprated bearings?...

If your rebuilding one then you would be best of finding ANY closed deck EJ20 bottom end to start with. As for the heads, an STI with solid lifters is the way to go!

allsop83

iTrader: (9)

All depends what power you are expecting to run mate??

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Your standard one with good forged internals, uprated oil pump, baffled sump, even go dry sump though more expensive, and a good responsive turbo.

Tony

BlueBugEye

iTrader: (12)

Seems to me the 'holy grail' of Subaru engines is the closed deck 2.2 bored/stroked to 2.35 and fully forged with all the correct supporting mods. Expect to pay at least £800 for a 2.2 block though!

Heads wise the solid lifters appear to be the strongest!

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

You dont need that engine though unless you want 700bhp+ and tbh, 350bhp is about as much as you want or need for hill climbing, you want limited lag and fast response, you dont get that with the bigger powered engines.
Standard block is more than sufficient, just go for the goodies that stop you getting fuel/oil starvation and your off and running

Tony

f4la k

iTrader: (1)

For a hillclimb car thats spot on Tony...

Matt Sills

iTrader: (1)

I'm not after big power figures at the moment just reliabilty. Unfortuately i bought a type r that had a legacy twin turbo engine with a turbo hacked off. It has all the sti manifolds but thats about it!. I won't be changing the internals but may upgrade turbo, injectors ect.

So as a base should i buy a Version 6 sti engine or mabe the later version 7/8 sti?

Sprint Chief

Are you serious about hillclimbing or just planning on having a little play?

If you want to be competitive at some point (even if not right at the beginning), then the first thing you should be doing is choosing a series, choosing a class and reading the regulations very carefully. Assuming you are doing UK speed events, you should be reading the MSA yearbook and any supplementary regulations associated with the events you are interested in.

For example, in the roadgoing classes in the events I do, having the wrong block casting or transmission casting for the model and year of car will immediately rule you out of the roadgoing classes, putting you straight into the modified production (which means slicks + roll cage). Also, you may well be up against 400bhp evos and the like even in the roadgoing class - a 350bhp classic can hold its own, but it needs a very well set up aftermarket suspension (again being careful that the suspension meets the rules).

If you are not so worried about being competitive, then just go with what suits your budget and plans. But if you're not interested in being competitive, you'll get much better value for money (in terms of track time etc.) from trackdays...

Matt Sills

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the advice, Ive just been reading through the Regs and have just realised that as a beginner i can only drive a vehicle up 2000cc N/A and 1428cc forced induction so that rules my car out straight away. Looks like i will have to find another type of motorsport to compete in.

Sprint Chief

Matt, I don't think that is right!

I could be wrong (need to dig out my blue book) but as long as the car is taxed, MoT'd, insured for use on the road, and competes in a road legal condition, you are okay to run your subaru.

Sprint Chief

Yup, here it is from the 2010 yearbook, my emphasis:

Edited to add: worth noting that your car isn't classified as "Racing" or "Sports Libre" either (both of these have specific technical definitions)

Matt Sills

iTrader: (1)

ok, i think i need to sit down and read the whole book thoroughly before carrying on with this build. How much is the average entrance fee ?

Sprint Chief

Reading the whole book sounds very brave, and probably enormously confusing for someone coming to it cold! It is probably worth finding someone local who competes that you can chat to. Local hillclimb + sprint clubs near you would include Green Belt Motor Club, Harrow Car Club, Herts County Auto and Aero Club. Middlesex County Auto Club is another popular one near you but they specialise in rallies. Most of these have monthly club meets in a pub, which would be a good opportunity to talk to people and discuss what your options are.

If you need a decision quicker than that on the block, I may be able to offer some guidance. It depends on whether you want to compete regionally or nationally. I'd need to read up on the national regs, a bit rusty on those, but regionally you'll either be competing in class A4 (road going AWD, popular scooby / evo hangout) or class B9 (modified production).

Class A4 is aimed at road legal cars with MoT, road legal tyres and B9 is the serious slicks and roll cage class; these are probably the main choices. For the regional championships, the link below gives a fair summary of what the different classes are about. Beware though, the national championships run to different class structures!

http://www.aemc.org.uk/Motor_Sport/S...ortVersion.pdf

Looking at the notes, they seem to be a bit more flexible now on the AWD class than I remembered - it seems that now you aren't limited to the original engine, just an engine available in 5000+units through "normal commercial channels" (which probably includes most subaru units...)

Entry fees for the regional events are typically around £60 up to £100 depending on the venue. One or two race circuit events can be a bit more.

Matt Sills

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the advice. In class A4 are any modifications allowed, could i fit a cage for safety reasons as it would still be road legal?

Sprint Chief

It might be wise to confirm, as I was out of the loop last year, and the regs have been tweaked a bit.

A cage is definitely okay, nobody is going to stop you adding safety features, but you will need to ensure the full trim is still present in the car, including back seats, door cards, carpets etc. You can have small cut outs etc. to install the cage but everything used to have to be in place.

I assume that is still the case but it wasn't obvious from the latest regs!

Grant74

iTrader: (10)

I hillclimb mine in standard production class, and run a safety devices roll cage harness and fia spec seats. Scritineers have been happy as they are all safety mods , but are insistent that they mist be to msa spec. I have my full interior, although back seats modified for cage .

I also run brembos and coilovers, which they also seem happy with although leas sure about this strictly speaking.

If your engine isn't knackered I would drive it as is and focus on sorting handling.

You can also currently run list 1b tyres in production class, including some nice soft ones so maybe worth spending money there - that will make you faster than 350 bhp!

Mine is at 340 but on road tyres, and I was only half a second faster than a megane running 280 but on soft ao48's

Matt Sills

iTrader: (1)

So would my car also be in the standard production class or the special production class as it seems they have different rules about engines. The MSA rulebook quotes for standard production class:

"the cylinder block and cylinder head must remain in the original position and be of the original type and material"

For the production specialist class it says:

"the cylinder block and head must be of a make and type produced in at least 5000 identical units originally available through the normal commercial channels"

So if my car is in the standard production class i cannot use the legacy engine that has been installed ?
Also to participate i would have to apply for a group b licence?

Grant74

iTrader: (10)

Speed non nationa B license and job done.

I wouldnt buy a helmet or overalls un til next year, as there was talk of having to use the more expensive overalls, and the helmet sticker types can be a nightmare.

Although its a legacy engine, its a 2l turbo, and I cant imagine the differences being anything really- best bet is to have a word with the scrutineers for the club that runs the events.

Most are quite reasonable if you explain it as it is, but some do take their job a little seriously.

Sprint Chief

To be honest, I wouldn't worry about the legacy engine. The block and head castings are close enough to be the same as the impreza (might even be the same), nobody is going to raise a fuss about them.

You need a national 'b' non-race licence, but I would recommend joining a club first. (You need club membership to be eligible for the regional events).

Also: grant74's advice on tyres is spot on. You need to be on the right rubber, for two reasons: firstly you need to be sure it is on the eligibility lists, secondly, the tyres are probably the single biggest factor in setting fast times (with suspension config a close second). Easiest way for a beginner is to go to an event and see what the quick guys are running

Grant74

iTrader: (10)

Nice to see a hillclimb thread too- would have thought there would be more as its a 'relatively' cheap form of motorsport.

That said, my wife calls my car the mistress, cause she gets so much attention I wouldnt have time for a proper mistress

Another tip- get some magnetic numbers made up, although do secure them with a little tape as well.

A roll of gaffer tape for the day is also vital

Matt Sills

iTrader: (1)

Cheers for the help guys. I'm going to take your advice and join a club and then go to a few events to get an idea of what hillclimbing is about.

Also the money i set aside for the engine is now going towards suspension upgrades and decent rubber :-)