Scooby Classic

iTrader: (1)

Hello all, pending the sale of my current car I'm looking for my next scoob. I want a car that can do motorway miles but also one that can just be used for track days. I like the look of some of the STI type RA's but I have a few questions:

I think my cash will stretch for a 1999 model (v6) is this the latest of the classics or was there a 2000 version?

If anyone has one, how is it for everyday use? I.E. around town and on the motorway?

The main problem I have seen seems to be that the gear ratio means that the rpm would be very high at around 80/90 mph. Is this the case?

I would apprecaite any other ups or downs for the considdered purchase. My other looker is a JDM STI v6 which seem to be within my price range as well. Given my needs (some minor commuting, child and Mrs in the car) which would be the best idea?

Thanks

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

Type ra gear ratios show 19mph/1000 rpm in 5th and the standard sti ratios show 21mph/1000rpm.

Banny

smokingkills

iTrader: (3)

Yes that drove me mad.

The ratios do make it great around town & country lanes.

ronjeramy

iTrader: (1)

My version 5 type r is about 70mph @ 4000 rpm or 80mph @ 4500rpm according to my sat nav for the speed.

Splitpin

V6 is the 2000 version. 1999 model year STi is the Version 5. If you've seen a version 6 registered on a '99 plate, the reason is that the model year changeover occurs around September of the "previous" year - so the earlier 6's were actually made and could be registered in 1999.

All depends how you define very high but yes, especially compared to a modern car with a six speed box, the standard STi ratios are very short - 18.9mph per 1000rpm or so in top, if I remember right, so at 90, it'll be doing over 4500rpm. The plus point of that is the acceration and throttle response. The downside is noise and cruise fuel economy (although the latter can be improved markedly with careful mapping).

There is a version of the car with a longer fifth gear which makes it a bit better on the motorway, but everything is relative and also (IMO at least) the long gap between fourth and fifth on this version of the box is less than ideal.

It's not exactly clear from your post what your needs are here. The Type RA's are raw, direct, and as above designed for out and out performance with very little compromise. Is there any reason why you're ruling out newage STis or UK market classics for example? Both will be better suited for extended motorway use than an STi5/6 and possess different balances of strengths.

Scooby Classic

iTrader: (1)

I think I'm keen on the RA as I hope to use it as my daily for a year or two and then keep it just for fun at the weekends and on the track. I'd prefer to keep just one car so that I know (to the best of my knowledge) that it has been looked after as it should have been.

The newage sti seems out of my price range (about £6000) apart from the bugs which aren't my cup of tea. The allure of the JDM is having a better base for some additional mods and looking at the classic import STI there seem to be some clean examples with tasteful mods that means I would get a lot of car for my dollar. In the future I'm not looking for bragging numbers but cost effective mods that will improve the cars performance within moderate safety limits, I know that you never really make your money back on these things so buying with mods would be ideal (did you see a car for sale by a member called Treehack? that looked spot on). I'm running a MY00 uk turbo at the moment and I feel like I want a little more fun. She's in great shape but at 104,000 on the clock I think she should go into the sunset gracefully rather than me spend more money than she's worth and making her go bang.

Sorry if I wasn't clear on the previous about my usage, I hope this is a bit more useful:

Used two to three times per week for short trips around town.

70 mile trip twice a fortnight ish on mixed town, A road and motorway

long 200-300 + mile trips every couple of months, mainly motorway.

All advice gratefully recieved, I'm not on an unlimited budget by any means so fuel costs are a considderation, but also insurance and reliability.

Scooby Classic

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for this, so a what amount of difference here? RA 74mph = 4000 rpm/ STI 84 MPH = 4000 rpm. How does this show in difference for noise/fuel economy? How does this compare to my current MY00 uk Turbo 2000?

Thanks

Splitpin

Furry muff. The big thing we know now that we didn't before is that you're coming from a UK spec Impreza rather than being entirely new to the marque.

If you're going this way, a tidy and well maintained STi 5/6 Type RA is the best option but, if you can't find a bog standard one, you need to be a bit picky on how any potential purchase has been modified. The obvious thing to avoid would be those running unmapped induction kits - big warning sign. Finding one that has been run for years on UK fuel without being mapped for it needs a bit of a considered approach too - worth letting the vendor do most of the talking and seeing how long it takes for the words "octane booster" to pass his/her lips.

Seeing as you already have it and are obviously aware of at least a certain amount of its history, and are also thinking of sensible budget constraints, I wouldn't entirely rule out keeping hold and doing stuff with it. A well modified late UK classic makes for a very potent roadcar, and to be honest 104,000 miles is nothing for one that has been properly maintained and run in standard trim. You'll also find advantages in motorway fuel economy and insurance via this route. The STi engine may be a theoretically better base for modification, but you can still do a lot with the UK ones.

And, as above, the other knock-on cost with a JDM car is the need to run on V-Power plus booster to properly equate to the fuel it is supposed to run on, or, if you can't find one that's already been done, figure in the £650 or so cost of a remap to ensure it is running safely on our pump fuel.

5th gear on UK car = 24.9mph/1000rpm, so 4000rpm = 99.6mph. Or, looking at it the other way, 80mph motorway cruise = 3200rpm or so.

Scooby Classic

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for this split pin. I have thought about modding the uk. Just sensible like: exhaust, up and down pipe, panel filter and a remap. I priced it up at around 1200 with labour for the bits I couldn't get done for free, maybe cheaper if I went for rock bottom used parts.

But then the more I read the more I think FMIC, vf34, larger injectors, fuel pump, tubular headers etc and then what to do with all the power, coilovers, whiteline goodies, and it goes on and on. It is a bit more of a gamble to get one that comes pre modded but the value seems to be immense (obviously a false economy if it blows up in your face).

The other appealing option is the newer UK STI. There is an 03 reg uk STI under 50,000 miles at slightly over my budget and I've seen higher mileage for less. I could have this but then I fall into the mod it or sell it category. Its all a bit of a head scratch for me.

If I put it this way: Would a driver like me, of distinctly average driving ability (especially on the track), really notice the difference between the Classic JDM STI and the RA or, as the car will be predominantly a road car, am I splitting hairs by wanting to have top theoretical spec?

Thanks again for the view points all.

midnight

iTrader: (10)

+1 for the above ,my old 99 uk turbo had 134,000 miles and had full service history and after a few simple mods made over 315 bhp,insurance was cheaper than a sti/ra,I was able to use uk fuel(without the need for boosters),and the car could sit at 80 mph all day at a tad over 3000 rpm. I know it is not as raw/savage as a ra,but as said above made a good rapid roadcar,that could be used on a day to day basis.

NAY93WRX

iTrader: (3)

Ive got a V5 STI RA WRC 555 LIMITED which means 1-4 gears are stupidly short but 5th is slightly longer.........don't get me wrong motorway driving is still crippling on the wallet.

On my car, 60mph is 3k revs

On a private road my old V3 STI RA would top out at 120mph, my V5 RA was still pulling at 145mph.....

Mine is an everyday car and since ive now got to drive further to work everyday the fuel bill is painful.........100miles for £30 of Sainsburys super.

All in all, id have an RA over a normal STI due to the raw driving experience which for me is what a Scooby is all about

Splitpin

If you're watching the pennies you don't need to replace the up-pipe, unless yours is actually broken. Classic one isn't catalysed and while you can get a small power increase from an appropriately designed one (i.e. Harvey's), it's a "later" rather than "sooner" mod as far as return on investment goes.

The bits above plus the remap will probably get you in the region of 280bhp, plus or minus a bit, and will give you a very capable engine that will feel very quick.

You don't need an FMIC. Even if you decide to replace the turbo there are other options that are in some ways better, and more cost-effective. Newage WRX intercooler is good well into horsepower numbers that begin with 3 and can be had for peanuts. Newage STi intercooler works at numbers that begin with 4.

Similarly, re. larger injectors, the standard 440's will usually be good into the 320-330 region, sometimes more, especially with mods to pressure regulation and pump.

The obvious way to mod a UK car is with a hybridised TD04 turbo. Your existing intercooler, injectors and fuel pump will support this fine and the response of the finished product will get the upper hand on many theoretically more powerful cars, primarily by dint of being onto boost and well down the road before the other one has even started to spool.

Coilovers, well, you can go that way or something like Kayaba AGX will give you a noticeable improvement without a four figure outlay - although if you're going to buy new springs at the same time, the economics of some budget coilovers start to look a bit more attractive.

Brakes, you can do a lot with without spending much. Newage WRX rear calipers and discs, high temp fluid, high performance front discs and pads. Or, if the car's already on 17" wheels, Godspeed's oversize front brake kit.

Totally standard UK STi ticks your boxes for road use but makes a heavy car for the track, with a totally different character to the Type RA's. And, standard, they don't feel as quick as a classic, in part because of the weight and in part because of the insulating effect of the thicker interior trims.

Too difficult to call that one - you may be less average than you realise! The answer is probably not - especially at first, but as you spend more time on the track you should become more able to exploit the limits of the car. Under those circumstances, the DCCD and plate rear diff extend the limits slightly and make the car more rewarding to drive, but these are, in the final analysis, marginal improvements.

As per Midnight's comments, if your current car is, as far as you're aware, in good nick, it seems as though taking it further in the direction you want to go may satisfy your requirements in a more comprehensive manner than taking a leap into the unknown.

Scooby Classic

iTrader: (1)

some definite food for thought. I have been against modding the uk but the more I look around the more it seems to make sense. please put me right with some rough costing:

ecutek remap: 650
TD04 Hybrid: 500 (what should I look at for a used one or should I not?)
Turbo back exhaust: ? Can I second hand this? maybe 200

Is there any point in getting the intercooler from a newage wrx if they are peanuts?

so maybe around 1200-1300, bit more for labour?

Already have 17" with performance discs and mintex 1155 front, fast road kevlar thingys rear.

Scooby Classic

iTrader: (1)

Just looking around, will a TD05 do? I think the adage seems to be the smallest that would suit your power needs, is this too much for the rest of the car, I do like my clutch and gear box and I'm not desperate for bigger.

Splitpin

Andy Forrest is charging £400 plus VAT for a hybrid TD04 on an exchange basis. If you can find a used one in good condition there's no reason why you wouldn't want to go that route, provided the price is agreeable to you.

You won't get a tidily made setup for £200 new but again if you want to go secondhand and can find something of good quality, the handy thing about well made stainless exhaust systems is that they last a while.

The newage WRX intercoolers sell for peanuts secondhand because most people go for the STi one by default. Doesn't change the fact that they're more effective than the standard MY99-00 one, and come with the fringe benefit of the newage dumpvalve, which is a slightly better design than the 99-00 version to start with, and also seems to be more resistant to the spring weakening off - which some of the late classic ones are known to do over time, causing idle stability issues as a result.

If you are going to go to the expense of fitting an aftermarket turbo and having it mapped, £40-odd plus some work fitting a newage WRX intercooler first would, IMO, be money well spent.

Depends what you're looking for. If you want as much brake horsepower as you can possibly have, go for a TD05 16g, VF35 or whatever - but work on the basis that you will probably not be able to max the turbo out without changing the injectors (and with either you would probably benefit from shelling out the extra on a new age STi top mount intercooler), and you will also find that you will end up with later spool slightly less flexibility and throttle response than at the moment. Net effect will be a slightly narrower powerband that gives you more the harder you rev it. You'd also then be in the sort of output ballpark that would push your clutch, and potentially your gearbox if you're the rough sort.

The value of the hybrid TD04-type turbos is that they deliver all the low end spool and flexibility you're used to (so, unlike some of the bigger units, it's a no-lose situation) are very well suited to the capability of the rest of the engine - so don't require significant amount of money spent on other supporting mods to get the best from them.