STI V3 or V4 Intercooler.....info needed
14 September 2010, 01:04 PM
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STI V3 or V4 Intercooler.....info needed
Can someone please tell me if a STI V3 or V4 intercooler is bigger and better than the standard top mount intercooler on a UK Classic Turbo (2000 X reg model) and if it's a worthwhile and simple upgrade?
14 September 2010, 03:42 PM
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So would one from the V5/6 be the same as mine then with no mods needed because these were 1999/00 models weren't they?
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14 September 2010, 07:33 PM
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To clarify, where has this 340bhp power figure come from, and have you conducted any charge temperature evaluation on this setup? In other words are you saying that you know the IC is still able to perform effectively at this level of airflow/power, or are you saying that you are running the above, but don't actually know how well the intercooler is working?
14 September 2010, 07:38 PM
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If you want a better top mount, the obvious option (if you're still on the standard turbo) would be a newage 01-05MY WRX intercooler, which can be had for very little money and does (especially with the better newage dumpvalve) constitute a worthwhile upgrade.
14 September 2010, 07:52 PM
#11
To clarify, where has this 340bhp power figure come from, and have you conducted any charge temperature evaluation on this setup? In other words are you saying that you know the IC is still able to perform effectively at this level of airflow/power, or are you saying that you are running the above, but don't actually know how well the intercooler is working?
14 September 2010, 08:38 PM
#12
No, it is not a worthwhile upgrade. It isn't really an upgrade at all. The STI3/4 IC is no more effective than what you already have, and, as has been said, fitting the earlier type will cause you a problem accommodating the dumpvalve.
If you want a better top mount, the obvious option (if you're still on the standard turbo) would be a newage 01-05MY WRX intercooler, which can be had for very little money and does (especially with the better newage dumpvalve) constitute a worthwhile upgrade.
If you want a better top mount, the obvious option (if you're still on the standard turbo) would be a newage 01-05MY WRX intercooler, which can be had for very little money and does (especially with the better newage dumpvalve) constitute a worthwhile upgrade.
15 September 2010, 06:33 AM
#13
Figure was recorded on a Dyno dynamics roller & according to the mapper it was fine. However i have not personally carried out any evaluations. Also i have had another setup similar to the above which also made close to 330hp with a STi 3 TMIC. Further more i have come across a few owners who have been running 350hp on the STi 3 TMIC for a while with no issues with airflow etc.
To add, on an STi 3 Wagon at 335 bhp, standard turbo, TMIC etc the ACTs were in excess of 70C very easily. Now that is the point.
Either go New Age STi TMIC or better still fit a Hybrid GT FMIC and the job is future proofed.
15 September 2010, 10:28 AM
#14
What Harvey, and splitpin said above^^^ came true for me last year in France on a French motorway at silly speeds in daytime temperatures in excess of 40 degrees.
Heatsoak.
The car detted itself to death, so fast that by the time the KnockLink registered it, it was already too late
It was a UK classic running circa 300bhp with a V5/6 TMIC and mapped by Bob Rawle.
Rebuild has an FMIC.
Heatsoak.
The car detted itself to death, so fast that by the time the KnockLink registered it, it was already too lateIt was a UK classic running circa 300bhp with a V5/6 TMIC and mapped by Bob Rawle.
Rebuild has an FMIC.
15 September 2010, 11:02 AM
#15
I think you missunderstand. Nobody is saying you cannot get some similar figure. The question is, what were the charge temperatures, were they safe and was it an efficient way to produce that power?
To add, on an STi 3 Wagon at 335 bhp, standard turbo, TMIC etc the ACTs were in excess of 70C very easily. Now that is the point.
Either go New Age STi TMIC or better still fit a Hybrid GT FMIC and the job is future proofed.
To add, on an STi 3 Wagon at 335 bhp, standard turbo, TMIC etc the ACTs were in excess of 70C very easily. Now that is the point.
Either go New Age STi TMIC or better still fit a Hybrid GT FMIC and the job is future proofed.
If the OP wants to do high speed runs all the time then yes a bigger intercooler would be better cooling wise. However if your upgrading to a FMIC for only 300ish then you will suffer from lag & the best option is to stick with STi 3/4 TMIC until you decide to go for more power & then either go for the newage TMIC or FMIC.
Also i forgot to add that the car was mapped on the rollers with STi 3 TMIC which you can imagine would cause a increase in ACT if any. I'm sure a live map would be more appropriate in reducing the ACT's.
Was your wagon also mapped on the rollers Harvey?
Last edited by KAS35RSTI; 15 September 2010 at 11:15 AM.
16 September 2010, 07:03 AM
#16
If you want to run a top mount go for a New Age STi and better still go for a Hybrid front mount and your ACTs are under control and future proof.
Last edited by harvey; 16 September 2010 at 07:09 AM.
16 September 2010, 07:19 AM
#17
Aladdin:
You tell us you are not monitoring temperatures so I guess ignorance is bliss.
If the front mount intercooler core is efficient and the car is properly mapped there will be no appreciable lag but I guess that might be another thread on its own.
It will make no difference whatsoever to ACTs whether the car is mapped on the road or on rollers. You do not map ACTs. You map the car for the best output and the end result should be similar whether you use road mapping or a dyno. Obviously the ACTs on the dyno will reflect the ability of the dyno cooling fan arrangements.
It is irrelevant whether it was mapped on the rollers or open road.
However, how about upwards of 7 or 8 times on the dyno, perhaps more than 10 and a similar figure on the road relating to the OE top mount.
Aladdin, I am not trying to be confrontational but intercoolers, both top mount and front mount and air charge temperatures are something I have done a lot of work on over several years and I am happy to share a lot more information with you if it is of interest. Just email me harveysmith1@btopenworld.com
Also i dont see why something has to be upgraded if its running perfectly fine.
However if your upgrading to a FMIC for only 300ish then you will suffer from lag
Also i forgot to add that the car was mapped on the rollers with STi 3 TMIC which you can imagine would cause a increase in ACT if any. I'm sure a live map would be more appropriate in reducing the ACT's.
Was your wagon also mapped on the rollers Harvey?
Was your wagon also mapped on the rollers Harvey?
Was your wagon also mapped on the rollers Harvey?
However, how about upwards of 7 or 8 times on the dyno, perhaps more than 10 and a similar figure on the road relating to the OE top mount.
Aladdin, I am not trying to be confrontational but intercoolers, both top mount and front mount and air charge temperatures are something I have done a lot of work on over several years and I am happy to share a lot more information with you if it is of interest. Just email me harveysmith1@btopenworld.com
Last edited by harvey; 16 September 2010 at 07:21 AM.
16 September 2010, 10:08 AM
#19
Aladdin, I am not trying to be confrontational but intercoolers, both top mount and front mount and air charge temperatures are something I have done a lot of work on over several years and I am happy to share a lot more information with you if it is of interest. Just email me harveysmith1@btopenworld.com
I know your not being confrontational. Harvey i was under the impression after reading on few things that if a car is mapped on the rollers it tends to have more higher ACT than if it was mapped on the road?
What is the best way to monitor air charge temperatures?
16 September 2010, 02:18 PM
#20
i used:-
WRX newage intercooler - got it for £30 of ebay
newage dump valve inc rubber hose to inlet - £10
classic intercooler Y-pipe.
uses existing mounting brackets along with a small extension/adapter piece onto driverside bracket
16 September 2010, 07:24 PM
#21
Fit a New Age STi and not a WRX.
Fitting the New Age STi to the version 3 or 4 car is quite involved if you are going to do it properly and includes the relocation of the idle control valve. It is a little easier on a version 5 or 6 car.
Despite what you may read by the time you get to 380 bhp you will be far better off with an efficient front mount.
To monitor air charge temperatures use an air charge temperature guage, £87.50 posted. I will get some photographs up later. It is also possible to monitor ACTs on a temporary basis using your laptop if you have access to the ECU.
With an effective front mount you will find air charge temperatures typically 6-12 degrees over ambient temperature. On a Classic with OE TMIC, depending on whether it is version 1 and 2 or 4-6, you will find temperatures 15-40 degrees over ambient. With an STi 8 TMIC typically 20-40 degrees over ambient all subject to what turbo, what power etc. and I only give these figures as rough indicators.
I know your not being confrontational. Harvey i was under the impression after reading on few things that if a car is mapped on the rollers it tends to have more higher ACT than if it was mapped on the road?
Last edited by harvey; 16 September 2010 at 07:28 PM.
17 September 2010, 06:48 AM
#27
I have one from Harvey, probably the most useful thing I have bought, I have an sti v4 tmic and the temperatures when blasting it/ when turning the car on after a run, is shocking. It's well worth it
17 September 2010, 03:36 PM
#28
harvey, in YOUR opinion, where's the best place to fit the temp sensor for the most accurate ACT readings? I'm guessing as close to the IM as possible i.e. in the OEM short IC hose (or hard-pipe/hose if aftermarket FM) immediately before the TB?
17 September 2010, 05:45 PM
#29
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Mine is mounted in the TMIC exit tank right next to where it the hose joins on. I've also fitted a second sensor in the same mount which is deliberately thermally coupled to the end tank. As such I can actually measure the amount of "heat soak" - i.e. the extent to which the intercooler body is being heated by underbonnet air.
17 September 2010, 07:53 PM
#30
...Mine is mounted in the TMIC exit tank right next to where it the hose joins on. I've also fitted a second sensor in the same mount which is deliberately thermally coupled to the end tank. As such I can actually measure the amount of "heat soak" - i.e. the extent to which the intercooler body is being heated by underbonnet air.
