STI V3 or V4 Intercooler.....info needed
 

Can someone please tell me if a STI V3 or V4 intercooler is bigger and better than the standard top mount intercooler on a UK Classic Turbo (2000 X reg model) and if it's a worthwhile and simple upgrade?

:thumb:

The STi V3/4 TMIC can support upto 340ish.

The dv fitment is different on v3/4 to the MY99/00 cars and it is not really much of an upgrade, you are better off going for a newage sti tmic if you really want to upgrade.

Banny

Is this just a case of swapping the one on it with the one on mine (am i right in thinking this is 2 bolts?) or is there more work involved than that?

The v3/4 are from 1996/97 aren't they?

So would one from the V5/6 be the same as mine then with no mods needed because these were 1999/00 models weren't they?

The V5/6 TMIC Dv fitment should be the same as your existing TMIC Dv setup.

Can you tell me what that conclusion is based on please.

HI Harvey,

Conclusion is based on MY97 2.0l Sti 3 with VF23, Walbro, 440cc, FPR, Power Fc, AVCR, full decat & induction.

To clarify, where has this 340bhp power figure come from, and have you conducted any charge temperature evaluation on this setup? In other words are you saying that you know the IC is still able to perform effectively at this level of airflow/power, or are you saying that you are running the above, but don't actually know how well the intercooler is working?

No, it is not a worthwhile upgrade. It isn't really an upgrade at all. The STI3/4 IC is no more effective than what you already have, and, as has been said, fitting the earlier type will cause you a problem accommodating the dumpvalve.

If you want a better top mount, the obvious option (if you're still on the standard turbo) would be a newage 01-05MY WRX intercooler, which can be had for very little money and does (especially with the better newage dumpvalve) constitute a worthwhile upgrade.

Figure was recorded on a Dyno dynamics roller & according to the mapper it was fine. However i have not personally carried out any evaluations. Also i have had another setup similar to the above which also made close to 330hp with a STi 3 TMIC. Further more i have come across a few owners who have been running 350hp on the STi 3 TMIC for a while with no issues with airflow etc.

I remember reading a comparison test carried out on Subaru TMIC's. The Newage WRX intercooler wasnt much (if any) of an upgrade over the STI 3/4 IC.

I think you missunderstand. Nobody is saying you cannot get some similar figure. The question is, what were the charge temperatures, were they safe and was it an efficient way to produce that power?

To add, on an STi 3 Wagon at 335 bhp, standard turbo, TMIC etc the ACTs were in excess of 70C very easily. Now that is the point.
Either go New Age STi TMIC or better still fit a Hybrid GT FMIC and the job is future proofed.

What Harvey, and splitpin said above^^^ came true for me last year in France on a French motorway at silly speeds in daytime temperatures in excess of 40 degrees.

Heatsoak.:rolleyes: The car detted itself to death, so fast that by the time the KnockLink registered it, it was already too late:(

It was a UK classic running circa 300bhp with a V5/6 TMIC and mapped by Bob Rawle.

Rebuild has an FMIC.;)

I cleary understand mate. I cant confirm the ACT as it was a quite a while ago but it was mapped & running fine with no noticeable lag. Plus the car was tracked regular for two years & had no issues. Also i dont see why something has to be upgraded if its running perfectly fine.

If the OP wants to do high speed runs all the time then yes a bigger intercooler would be better cooling wise. However if your upgrading to a FMIC for only 300ish then you will suffer from lag & the best option is to stick with STi 3/4 TMIC until you decide to go for more power & then either go for the newage TMIC or FMIC.

Also i forgot to add that the car was mapped on the rollers with STi 3 TMIC which you can imagine would cause a increase in ACT if any. I'm sure a live map would be more appropriate in reducing the ACT's.

Was your wagon also mapped on the rollers Harvey?

By 300 bhp the STi 3/4 TMIC is already struggling and by 320 bhp it is way out of control. I happen to know this from monitoring temperatures over a couple of months both on the road and during mapping on rollers and again on the road.
If you want to run a top mount go for a New Age STi and better still go for a Hybrid front mount and your ACTs are under control and future proof.

Aladdin: You tell us you are not monitoring temperatures so I guess ignorance is bliss.

If the front mount intercooler core is efficient and the car is properly mapped there will be no appreciable lag but I guess that might be another thread on its own.

It will make no difference whatsoever to ACTs whether the car is mapped on the road or on rollers. You do not map ACTs. You map the car for the best output and the end result should be similar whether you use road mapping or a dyno. Obviously the ACTs on the dyno will reflect the ability of the dyno cooling fan arrangements.

It is irrelevant whether it was mapped on the rollers or open road.
However, how about upwards of 7 or 8 times on the dyno, perhaps more than 10 and a similar figure on the road relating to the OE top mount.

Aladdin, I am not trying to be confrontational but intercoolers, both top mount and front mount and air charge temperatures are something I have done a lot of work on over several years and I am happy to share a lot more information with you if it is of interest. Just email me harveysmith1@btopenworld.com

From what i understand though there is a fair bit of work that goes into making a newage one fit a classic isn't there?

I know your not being confrontational. Harvey i was under the impression after reading on few things that if a car is mapped on the rollers it tends to have more higher ACT than if it was mapped on the road?

What is the best way to monitor air charge temperatures?

no its not too bad at all to fit on MY99/00 cars. there is a write up somewhere for it. ill try to dig out

i used:-
WRX newage intercooler - got it for £30 of ebay
newage dump valve inc rubber hose to inlet - £10
classic intercooler Y-pipe.

uses existing mounting brackets along with a small extension/adapter piece onto driverside bracket

If you are going to do the job you might as well do it right.
Fit a New Age STi and not a WRX.
Fitting the New Age STi to the version 3 or 4 car is quite involved if you are going to do it properly and includes the relocation of the idle control valve. It is a little easier on a version 5 or 6 car.
Despite what you may read by the time you get to 380 bhp you will be far better off with an efficient front mount.

To monitor air charge temperatures use an air charge temperature guage, £87.50 posted. I will get some photographs up later. It is also possible to monitor ACTs on a temporary basis using your laptop if you have access to the ECU.
With an effective front mount you will find air charge temperatures typically 6-12 degrees over ambient temperature. On a Classic with OE TMIC, depending on whether it is version 1 and 2 or 4-6, you will find temperatures 15-40 degrees over ambient. With an STi 8 TMIC typically 20-40 degrees over ambient all subject to what turbo, what power etc. and I only give these figures as rough indicators.

The air charge temperature on the rollers during mapping may be higher than they would otherwise be during mapping on the road if the rolling road facility does not have good fan air facilities. Once the car is mapped it matters not where it was mapped as to what future ACTs might be.

http://i51.tinypic.com/2zfvgnl.jpg

http://i56.tinypic.com/nybfbm.jpg

Ok thats makes more sense. Pic's not working Harvey.

They are for me.

I think the website those images come from is blocked at my work place. Will have look once i get home.

:thumb:

Nice clear pics and not off any website.

I have one from Harvey, probably the most useful thing I have bought, I have an sti v4 tmic and the temperatures when blasting it/ when turning the car on after a run, is shocking. It's well worth it

harvey, in YOUR opinion, where's the best place to fit the temp sensor for the most accurate ACT readings? I'm guessing as close to the IM as possible i.e. in the OEM short IC hose (or hard-pipe/hose if aftermarket FM) immediately before the TB?

Provided it is after the intercooler (obv), the sensor is thermally isolated and directly exposed to the airflow (without causing too much in the way of turbulence or restriction), you can put it anywhere convenient. Slipping it under the IC-TB connector hose is the obvious option, especially for the thin wire type thermocouples, but you must make sure it can't touch anything - either the metal of the IC outlet spigot or the throttle body intake trumpet, or you'll get skewed (i.e. inaccurate) readings.

Mine is mounted in the TMIC exit tank right next to where it the hose joins on. I've also fitted a second sensor in the same mount which is deliberately thermally coupled to the end tank. As such I can actually measure the amount of "heat soak" - i.e. the extent to which the intercooler body is being heated by underbonnet air.

Good place to put it if on a TMIC. :)