budd

iTrader: (5)

my rough '99 classic project as just passed it's MOT, but isn't taxed at the moment (apr 1st) I've had a little run out in it (on a private road of course) and it only seems to be boosting to 5-6 PSI I don't know what the std boost level is but this seems a little low, plus it doesn't feel particularly quick cerntainly no where near as fast as my old XJR and probably only on a par with my Volvo 850R !!!
So what should I be looking at? boost soleniod is it possible to clean and check this ? what else could be limiting boost?

Splitpin

Before you do anything else have a look at Rich D's "Restrictor Pill" thread which should be close to this one on the forum.

If the Check Engine light isn't on, an absent restrictor or misconfigured boost control pipework's the first place to look so that other thread should help you a lot.

If the CEL is on, connect the black plugs under the dash and tell us what the fault code(s) are - will make it easier for us to help point you in the right direction.

Is it an import, UK car, or what btw?

budd

iTrader: (5)

thanks I'll check that thread out, BTW it's a UK car but I bought it proper cheap, no history, no documents, dog rough condition, engine no doesn't match V5, the engine fitted as metal headgaskets and it's running a VF28 turbo, yellow injectors, full exhaust etc so maybe it's an STI engine??? whatever it is it's been messed about with, but because I've no history I don't know the exact engine or tune, I believe it's got a Ecutek 'tek2' map but I don't know for sure, so I guess I'm trying to figure out what the spec is but there is something wrong re the boost it's making it's not even up to std level, I don't know what the various Ecutek tunes are but for a stage 2 (tek 2) I would imaginethe boost to be around 1bar boost.mines only making 1/2 that, TBH I'm very new to Imprezas so I'm kind of finding my way asking dumb questions, but hey I've got to learn somewhere.
As I've done a bit of searching on the sublect of boost control problems I've quite a few threads concerning low boost it there a 'limp home' default the ECU switches to if it detects a problem/ my CEL light isn't on and I don't know how to check fault codes is it even possible to check fault codes on a '99 model without a cable and software ?

budd

iTrader: (5)

OK just read the restrictor pil thread, where exactly is this 'pil' or where should it be, there's lots of chavy silicone vac pipe in my engine bay so chancers are some muppet as juked the std vac pipes in favour of fancy bling,
and thanks for the responces I realise it's difficult enough to trace problems on std cars but when a cars been buggered about with as much as mine obviously has it probably extecting alot but thanks anyway

Splitpin

UK engine would have yellow injectors and steel gaskets too so those aren't differentiators. Might be worth taking a peak at the barcode sticker on the 1/3 branch timing belt cover - but if the engine's been changed there's no guarantee the sticker matches the new one anyway. What colour's the inlet manifold? If it's red, is the paint all tatty and flaking off, or is it pretty much pristine?

You're probably going to need some professional help establishing exactly what it is you've got there. As per the other thread you can query the ECU and find out some of the key info on it but without knowing the exact engine spec it'll be tricky.

Best/quickest way forward might be to get it looked at by an EcuTeK tuner, as one imagines they'll be able to identify which mapper's licence details are on it. Once you know the mapper, you should be able to find out from him what the various bits are.

If it was in limp mode the CEL would be on. If it ain't the only question to ask is whether you see it come on when you turn the ignition on. If you don't then the bulb's either gone or been removed.

Yes, fault code checking is as per all other classics. Connect the black plugs under the dash and count the flash sequence on the CEL.

Yeah that's probably a good guess. Restrictor should be in the length of pipe that runs between the turbo compressor bleed outlet and the t-piece. If you can't feel (or see, with silicone) it, QED.

As above, if it's got a TeK map on it, trying to track down the mapper's probably the quickest way of finding out the detail of what you've got there.

dunx

iTrader: (3)

Hi budd,

I would expect your 850R to be quicker....

As stated check the CEL bulb hasn't been removed.

Then it's squeezy silicon tube time.

Good luck !

dunx

budd

iTrader: (5)

Am I right in thinking the restrictor should be in the blue silicone pipe between the compressor and actuator? (no pil seems to be present)
I can't see a T piece where should that be? this pic shows exactly how the vac lines were set up by the previous onwer so there's no reason to think it will be correct!!!
CEL light coming on with ignition and going off correctly.
Once I get the car taxed (Thurs) I'll arrange for it to be looked at by a ECUtek mapper (Paul at Zen has been recommened but it's a fair old drive from Yorkshire, any recommendations closer to home?)
Unfortunately we're booked on the ferry to the Isle of Man thurs, (I'll be at the Post Office first thing to get it taxed then it's off the Heysham) this is probably not the best course of action given that the car is as yet untested, and it also means I'm not going to be able to get the map checked prior to this trip so I want to check as much as I can my self to give it the best chance of A performing reasoably well on the TT course and B making it home under it's own power and not on the back of an AA truck!!

Splitpin

Lol, QED, yes, the restrictor should be there, but the real giveaway is the lack of a T-piece.

The explanation for low boost is that you're just running on actuator pressure, the boost control solenoid's completely bypassed with that setup.

The T-piece should dividing that pipe between the compressor and actuator nipples in two, with the restrictor then installed on the compressor side. Then there should be a pipe running from the middle leg of the T over to the boost control solenoid. Unless of course it's got a three port or other non-standard solenoid fitted.

If you're going away before you've had a chance to get it looked at, leaving it set up as it is would probably be the safest bet until you're back close to home.

dunx

iTrader: (3)

JGM ( for one) travels all over the country, it may be worth asking him if he's oop Narth soon ?

dunx

budd

iTrader: (5)

OK that would explain it then!!! like I said I'm new to Imprezas so I'm not sure what's right and what's not, so again sorry for the dumb questions but where do I find this boost solenoid?

Deano1565

iTrader: (2)

Its On the drivers side Just under a plastic cover near the box for the air filter.

budd

iTrader: (5)

is it in this pic?

also if it's faulty / missing what's pros -cons of replacing it with a 3 port solenoid?

Deano1565

iTrader: (2)

Its the blue solenoid with the blue plug on it. As to the pros and cons am not to sure mate.

budd

iTrader: (5)

I've just been out to and and removed the boost soleniod and it looks like I've found the problem,

one of the hose tails is snapped off,
as I now need a new soleniod how does a 3 port solenoid differ from the std item? is fitting a 3 port item worthwhile ? and what's the benefits ?

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

3-port takes the boost feed direct from compressor to the BCS's top port, and then back out of the BCS's middle port to the w/g. The 3-port bleeds the "valved" air out via a 3rd bottom port. The bottom port has a bit of vac hose attached with the restrictor pill in.

The 3-port is supposed to control and hold target boost level more finely and accurately.

There's a school of thought though, that if you udgrade from a 2-port to 3-, then a remap is required to optimise/make safe...

Jamz_

iTrader: (12)

3 ports allow for better boost control and also allows more boost...

These are piped up different from the 2 port... compressor pipe goes into the top port, actuator pipe goes into the lower port and the very bottom port gets fed to filter/atmosphere (if you car requires a restrictor pill, this goes into the pipe that goes from bottom port to filter/atmosphere)

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

lol ^^^

Jamz_

iTrader: (12)

lol great minds thing alike

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Unfortunately, my mind ain't great.

Just dirty LOL!

Jamz_

iTrader: (12)

*as I'm staring at your avatar*

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Totally.

budd

iTrader: (5)

cheers I check out a 3 port item then, if the ECU is controlling and monitoring boost levels then the type of solenoid shouldn't matter as it's not the solenoid that's setting the levels it's just there as a means of controlling and maintaining a preset boost level, if this is the case then the benefits of a 3 port item would only be felt if boost was to be increased significantly,
'I THINK' my car as a ecutek 'Tek 2' map, I'm guessing this due to the little yellow tek 2 sticker on it, it may not have of course, everything about the car is suspect, are Ecutek maps always mapped to the individual car or is there a generic map to suit certain mods? Because the boost level will have raised as part of the process of remapping, a 3 port solenoid my be just the ticket to control the uprated boost,. Or have I got it all wrong ?(it wouldn't be the first time!!!)

Splitpin

It's not a school of thought, it's a totally unavoidable reality.

Can tell you now it won't work. A 3 port connected as a 3 port on an ECU that thinks it's controlling a two port = major overboost.

That's not correct. Whatever the current boost level, you could benefit from a three port now as a properly set up one will allow slightly earlier spool and better throttle response. However, to control a three port properly you need to completely rescale the solenoid duty cycle and control dynamics tables in the ECU.

Tek maps are normally custom but I think the Tek2 is a term applied to a generic drop-in map - you'll need to check though.

No, whether the car has a custom map or a generic one, if it's been mapped on the standard solenoid, you can't just drop a 3P in and expect it to work right.

If you want to consider fitting a three port in future what you could do is get hold of one and plumb it in as a 2P. This should get your car running nominally, and offer the opportunity to revert to its proper install configuration during a future remap or map tweak.

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

lol I wasn't certain (it's one of those ones that divdes opinion). I was waiting for you to come along to tell it like it is.

Splitpin

I guess it's possible that the newage ECUs might have better self-learning capability, but as far as classics are concerned, if it divides opinion, presumably the division is between those who know what they're talking about, and those wot don't.

budd

iTrader: (5)

thanks for the help with this, I've obviously alot to learn!!! anyway I've just bought a used 3 port solenoid on Ebay (£18 sound reasonable?) so how do I configure it as a 2 port? I assume I just ignore the 3rd port and plumb it in with a T pice and restrictor? am I right in thinking the feed from the broken hose tail on my solenoid goes to the T piece at the turbo, with one of the Tee'd pipes to the actuator and the other to the compressor housing (with restrictor) with the other solenoid port going to the intake pipe is that correct?

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Indeed.

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Here's how the 2-port one hooks up:-



So, as previously mentioned, you'll have to get a T-piece and fit it between the pipe from comp to w/g. Then the 90-deg T-piece's leg goes to the top of the 3-port.

Presumably you use the 3-port's bottom port for venting (you can vent it back to the intake as shown ^^^), with the unused middle one blocked up. Make sure a suitable sized restrictor is in the comp to T-piece section of vac hose. (also pointed out above).

budd

iTrader: (5)

cheers that's a top pic shows it all very well, re the restrictor could I make one? I don't supose they are available without buying the whole the vac pipe so I wander if I could knock one up from a mig tip drilled out to 1.2mm ?

Splitpin

The one thing you might have to check, depending on which solenoid you've got (is it an old Subaru one, or...?) is which way round you need to connect it in 2 port mode. It's late and my thinking head is definitely off for the night!

Yeah but...

You can do it from a MIG tip but as well as the right diameter it also needs to be about the same length as the Subaru one (approx 6mm). However, Subaru do sell them loose, they're a couple of quid.