TheDuke

Hello,
I hope some people can give me some suggestions/recommendations on this ongoing stressball of a nightmare I'm having with my car.
I'll try and make this as short as possible.

I have a Subaru Impreza STI PPP spec D 06.
I had a problem a few months ago with overheating and needed new head gaskets. See this thread if you want details of that:

https://www.scoobynet.com/general-te...out-right.html

I bought the car, head gaskets went (cost £1700), warranty company had no details of my car, the garage I bought the car had closed down etc etc. You get the gist, worse case scenario vibe etc.

So I took the hit, paid my money got it fixed.
Since then I have done thousands of miles trouble free. The only problem I have with my car is the amount of oil it consumes (it did this before the head gasket job)
I say consume as there is no smoke on WOT or cold start/idle etc. I honestly wouldn't know unless I wasn't checking the dipstick every morning.

It's using around 1 liters every 4-500 miles. Every so often the car seems to lose power for a while. I mean 3 times in 000's of miles but it was only for a few minutes.

I took the car to a very reputable performance subaru tuner for a compression test. The results showed that 2 cylinders were really low and one just passed.
They suspect piston ring land failure and suggested a forged engine rebuild.
They said DO NOT DRIVE IT.

I decided to take the car to another well known engine building/tuning for a second opinion (as Dynamix suggested I should have done when I had my head gaskets done in the other thread)

They gave me these results:

Compression (psi) Leakage (%)

cylinder 1 150 20
cylinder 2 150 45
cylinder 3 150 40
cylinder 4 150 40

They said the car running better than he thought it would for it's age!
They said 40% leak down is sometimes normal on new cars.
When I asked about possible piston rings sticking and ring lands he said it might be an intermittent fault with the ring that controls the amount of oil in the cylinder but he doubted it and gave the car a full bill of health.
He suggested I should ROLLING ROAD IT for more diagnostics.

These past few days it's been running great.
But, driving to and from work today, it feels like the car has no power.
This is at all revs. Before turbo even spools etc. It has been like this all day (5 or 6 trips)

All this conflicting advice (highlighted in capitals).
I feel sick, I really do. I could have taken my kid to disney land from what I might have to spend on my car (especially after the £1700 head gasket job in December/fake warranty/car dealer shutting shop).

I haven't got the heart to sell it to someone privately, and be faced with what I've had to put up with. Trading in I will lose about the same difference between selling privately and getting a forged engine rebuild.
I can't afford to payout thousands at the moment after buying the car head gaskets etc, so looks like i'm going to have to get a loan or something to pay for it.

Please for the love of god may someone help me. What the hell is wrong with this car?

Anyone got any suggestions where I should take my car for a forged engine rebuild if it is required? Somewhere tried and tested/honest/cheap with a warranty?
Feel to free to pm me some quotes with warranty details etc.
Thanks in advance,
The Duke

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Where are you based mate ?

Very happy to check it out to see if I can get to the bottom of the loss of power.

I presume you run on vpower at all times (or tesco 99) ?

Butty

iTrader: (2)

A diagnostic check is the starting point before raiding your piggybank.

My coolant trouble ended up being the HGs. I'm getting a short forged engine from Paul at Finch Motorsport in Northampton and doing the transplant DIY.

The oil loss is too high and out of spec (max is 1 litre/1000 miles). If its not going through the engine then it should be a very visible loss on the bottom of the car.
Were the company who did the HGs made aware of the initial oil loss and did they offer any warranty? What contract of work did you have with them - just the HGs or HGs and cure the oil loss?

nick

Scrappie_Don_t

Hello bud

I feel your pain. I don't have a great deal of scooby experience, but I do have plenty of car experience. I'm a trained engineer.

Listening to what you said about what was done to the car sounds unbeliveable. What was the mileage when all this work was done?

Anyway, when the engine overheats and the head gasket goes, there are other things I'd be checking. Why did it go? If it overheated, then there is a chance that the head warped a touch and needed skimmed. Whas this done? If so, did they use a thicker head gasket to compensate? (Otherwise you get higher compression, which standard rings cannot always handle, causing blowby and resultant low compression instead)

The other question on my mind is that if the head gasket went, what happened? Did it blow oil through the exhaust? If it did, I'd be surprised if the Cat/Cats and Lambdas survived either, once they get coated in oil, they're normally toast. Also, when they get covered in deposits, they can't always read the oxygen levels correctly, and won't always show a failure. You are often lucky enough to be able to clean them, so that's worth a try too.

Finally, due to the nature of the way the cat works, you rarely see smoke from the exhaust until it's too late, as nominal oil burning is converted into invisible gas. Heavy oil would show. A gas analysis might show this up, might not.

If you've de-catted it, then scratch all that. Oil burning would show right away. As said above, that amount would be everywhere. If it's not in the coolant, then it must be burning it. I'm sure your car is a turbo? If it is, then the turbo could be to blame, dependant on the way they fail, the oil can be drawn into the combustion process and vanish, but again it would be seen if you had no cat. Worth checking

I hope that helps you a little and doesn't just add more unanswered questions.

Kind regards

Warren (Srappie_Don_t)

dunx

iTrader: (3)

If it's burning that much oil it's a diesel, heavy contamination with oil fumes aren't good for turbo motors, as it reduces the octane rating of the fuel and will add to any damage if used hard.

A bodge job to help might be to add an oil catch can system and to vent the fumes to atmosphere. Giving you time to sort a re-build.

Good luck !

dunx

TheDuke

Thanks for the replies. I'll try and answer all the questions.
I'm based in derbyshire. The car is a hawkeye 06 sti spec d impreza with the prodrive performance pack.
When the heads went I had new gaskets, both heads tested and reskimmed, valve seats recut just in case.
When the gaskets blew it was oil in the coolant. It hasn't overheated since.
A few places seem to think that it is an electrical fault so I have taken it to have a rolling
road diagnostic today. They said they migh not have time to do it today though.
Would an electrical fault cause the oil loss? Doesn't seem logical to me.
A bit annoyed that the car ran well on be way to he rolling road place this morning though.
Any other suggestions appreciated.

Scrappie_Don_t

Just a bit of clarification about the head skimming.

It is important to use a thicker gasket if the heads are skimmed. Otherwise you reduce the size of the combustion chamber and increase the compression, which can lead to gas and oil blowing past the rings or head gasket going again!!

Let's hope it's not that!!!

TheDuke

It was using the oil before the headgasket was done. The car has it's cat. It's just had the prodrive backbox which comes from the ppp.
They didn't have time to do the rolling road diagnostic but they did an error code check and found nothing.
Have to take it in some other time. Ran well though on the way back. They must have reset the ecu.
Whatever the fault it's using too much oil. Where are you based dynamix?

Butty

iTrader: (2)

I'd be contacting the rebuild company to say the oil use is still there and its too high.
I take it there is no oil in the coolant now?
Did they give a warranty for their work?

milliemoo

what oil are you using!!!

TheDuke

No oil in the coolant since gaskets done. No overheating. Done 5000 miles since the gaskets. I use shell helix ultra. The garage did notice a very small leak from the exhaust gasket on the turbo uppipe. They said that won't cause oil consumption though. Don't think it would explain the power loss either as when this happens it happens at all revs. Especially between 2-3000 revs.
Thanks for the input guys, keep it coming!

STI Mav

Really sorry to hear about your issues fella, I know I was going through the same head gasket issues as you at pretty much the same time.

Must admit mine seems to be using more oil since the headgasket work then it did before but I'm still (I think) getting roughly 1000 miles from a litre of oil which is what Subaru state. Plus mine's been on the rollers and remapped with Duncan from Dynamix and everything seems to be running as it should do.

Having said that I'm still slightly concerned that mine is using more oil than it should be. It's been checked over by Paul @ Xtreme Scoobies and it's been suggested to me that the turbo oil seals could be weak/worn or on their way out and that oil may be getting through the system here. You should be able to tell if this is the case because there will be oil in the down pipe and the turbo exhaust housing. I've spoken to a couple of turbo companies and have been advised there are service kits available for the VF43, and that the oil seals can be replaced - again having said that a replacement second hand turbo probably wouldn't cost a whole lot more and would be a welcomed upgrade if you were looking for more power at any point in the future (least of your worries now though).

About the only think I can say is that through advice from tuners and other people I have now had the PPP taken off mine because it was causing massive overfuelling amongst other things. Duncan from Race Dynamix has remapped it to the same power level as the PPP was and the car runs much better now. Not suggesting map is the cause of your issue but could possibly be 1 of a number of issues ??

Got my fingers crossed you get to the bottom of it and get it sorted mate.

Cheers,

Mav

Scrappie_Don_t

:Hmm

An oil leak onto a very hot part of the exhaust would vapourise into a fine smoke and not leave a trace. Had that once. Rare but happens. I'm still with the turbo. Only under heavy load/high heat?

TheDuke

Going on holiday now. I'll get a better idea when it's been rollingroaded when I get back. That's if my dad doesn't blow it up first! Thanks for the advice. I'll be back on in a week!

TheDuke

Ok so I got back off holiday and took the car t the garage to check this exhaust gasket.
They said when I had the headgasket done they didn't change the exhaust gaskets (which hey charged me for) they even said one of them had a bolt missing and one hadthe wrong bolt in.
Great so they reckon it's going to be £310 to replace the 2 x exhaust gaskets with 4 hours labour.
I've just had a phonecall telling me that they have found a small crack onthe wastegate boost control valve ( here the wastegate sits on the turbo housing)
sounds cheap. Please advise before I hang myself over this ****.
Is this a real problem or is it common? Is it expensive? Is it on the turbo? Would it explain oil consumption?
Please help as I am still recovering from the £1800 headgasket bill.
mane Subaru should buy my car to research how knackered an sti can get in 3-4 years.
Please help.
Lov

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Almost every VF43 turbo I have seen has a cracked exhaust housing around the wastegate penny - It really doesn't cause a problem and no need to be replaced IMO.

Butty

iTrader: (2)

£310!! So what gaskets are they talking about?

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

why arent the other garage paying for it?

MOTORS S GT

iTrader: (2)

If you have 40/45% cylinder leakage figures with high oil consumption you have piston / ring problems, until you get a grip on that your throwing good money away looking elsewhere.

As Duncan said you will be hard pressed to find a non cracked turbo after a few years use.

TheDuke

They are charging me £310 to replace the two exhaust gaskets. I went there yesterday to look at the turbo crack and told them just to leave it. And do the gasket. They are charging me about £50 for parts and four hours labour.
I will take the bill back to the garage that did the headgaskets and get them to pay for it. I took the car back to the garage that did the headgaskets 3 times about the exhaust and power loss but they kept saying it was ok. I will upload tenphoto but I can't at the mo as I'm on my iPhone.
I take it I'm getting ripped off for this too? Does sound expensive but they have taken the intercooler and turbo off and had the turbo out when I was there. It's a very reputable tuning garage as I thought I should take it there after the headgasket **** up. I just want it done right. Thanks for the comments, keep them coming.

STI Mav

Was there any evidence of oil coming through the turbo or oil in the downpipe that might suggest your oil seals are weak/failed. This could well be your issue when it comes to the oil consumption side of things.

TheDuke

They said there was no oil in the down pipe Mav.
Butty how much do you think it should cost for the up pipe and down pipe exhaust gaskets to the turbo to be replaced?
They said it would be about £50 in parts as they needed bolts as some where missing/wrong type from the last place I took it.
I have been told the bill is £399. £310 including £50 on parts, + another £30 on diagnostic and ecu reset which I had done before I went on holiday. Thats £340 + VAT = £399.50
£260 on labour does sound excessive.
Does sounds a bit steep but they did take the intercooler and turbo off if that makes any difference. How many hours should it take to do in your professional opinion?
They also said when they phoned up about the bill that there was still a very small leak from cold which they reckon is coming from the up-pipe itself! They said that they never noticed it before due to the excessive gasket leaks!
So I guess it'll be just as knackered as it was when I dropped it off?
Wow, this sucks.
I have uploaded the photos of the crack in the turbo they showed me (and told them to leave) after peoples advice on here + i'm skint (for obvious reasons). Sorry about the quality I only had my phone on me when they showed me.

http://yfrog.com/japhotolaj

http://yfrog.com/5mphoto1wcdj

Please advise. No doubt I will still lose boost and have to replace the up pipe. Then I will still lose boost and need a new turbo (due to crack). Then I will still be burning oil and need the piston/piston rings done
Anyone want to buy a spec D? £000's spent!
Don't know how much more of this I can take.
How should I approach the garage I took it to get the head gaskets done about paying this bill for me?
Any advice what to say? Should I go to trading standards first or approach them first?
I'm getting something back off them that's for sure. The bill for the head gasket job is here.......

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5605/photoig.jpg

I took it back to them 3 times and they said they've tightened it up etc. They charged me £67.00 as well the first time they did it saying it was lower down the exhaust. The last time they said they couldn't find anything wrong and made me sound like a time waster.
These gaskets they have charged me for are the same ones in the bill right?
How much luck can one person have?

Butty

iTrader: (2)

Its £28 total for both OEM turbo gaskets. I'd personally take 2 hours to take off the turbo if its been off before recently.

I don't know what to say other than this kind of work should be dealt with a garage that has experience of subarus.

If the engine is using a high amount of oil then claim under any repair warranty. If they don't want to know then its time to go legal so get advice from trading standards, send a letter to the garage to say you are rejecting the repair work and also get the recently company to give a letter stating what they found wrong with the bolts & gaskets.
If the HG repair garage don't budge then I'm afraid its an engine strip down and an independent inspection, with a small court claim for all costs which is very messy.

Butty

iTrader: (2)

Its £28 total for both OEM turbo gaskets. I'd personally take 2 hours to take off the turbo if its been off before recently.

I don't know what to say other than this kind of work should be dealt with a garage that has experience of subarus.

If the engine is using a high amount of oil then claim under any repair warranty. If they don't want to know then its time to go legal so get advice from trading standards, send a letter to the garage to say you are rejecting the repair work and also get the recently company to give a letter stating what they found wrong with the bolts & gaskets.
If the HG repair garage don't budge then I'm afraid its an engine strip down and an independent inspection, with a small court claim for all costs which is very messy.

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

The crack is fine BTW - def good to go and wont cause a problem or restrict boost.

TheDuke

Thanks alot for he comments and advice. I bought a fiesta for £100 off my mate as a run about. Gonna keep my Subaru as a weekend car now and dave to get the pistonrings done. It'll cut my milage to next to nothing and I'll have to jus keep putting oil in it for now.
The oil always seems to get dirty very quickly after an oil change. Is this a sign of piston ring failure aswell as the oil consumption?
Thanks again. You've helped me more than you know.