Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

I'm venturing back into a my99 version 5 car so while the majority of my tuning parts will swap, the electronic jiggery-pokery will not.
So I'm faced with buying a new ECU.
I've had OE standard, PowerFC (v5) and (v2) and Simtek (v2).

The PowerFC (v5) was my favourite, but that is more of a credit to my mapper (JGM) as we spent ages getting the map perfect for every scenario, however the Simtek was mafless, which was a known weakpoint.

So the question is thus:
What ECU to go for?
I haven't the wedge for Solaris,
2nd hand values on the PowerFC are artificially high and by the time the mapping is factored in it's not that cheap anymore (my last PFC cost £90!),
Simtek has not been the all singing all dancing answer that some members vociferously claimed in the beginning,
Ecutek, I don't know enough about it to comment.

Over to the floor....

p.s. I know that I should ask my mapper, and I will, but I'm after the opinion of the masses in the short term.
Thank you

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Hi mate,

Simtek, Bob Rawle or JGM, job's a good un!!

Ecutek on a classic not optimal for a number of reasons

a) No in gear boost compensation - you'd need a seperate boost controller like AVCR.
b) Stupid emissions related boost cut crap that can't be mapped out
c) Inferior map resolution to Simtek.
d) Maf based
e) Can't be live mapped
f) No dual map facility

I went to Simtek from Ecutek and AVCR on my MY99 and there was no looking back!

Ns04

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Depends on how far you want to take it Andy?

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

well under 400 of each Bob, looking at enjoying the car again so going back to an 18g and a sensible 360 ish give or take

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Std ECU and a Tek/Open Source Remap will do it, but the rest depends on how much extra you want to spend

TingTongPJ

iTrader: (24)

as above it's a lot of outlay for 360bhp, does have bennifits as stated above but do you want them ?

will cost you over 1k to chage and mapping, plus extra if you want launch and anti lag.

i put a simtek in mine but then i didn't really have a choice as i have a my98.

i'd remap the ECUTek and spend the rest of the money on upgrading the brakes or something.

my only complaint is the engine light flashing on the simtek when you know nothing is wrong it seems to have a mind of its own although i know my forget 2.1 is noisy.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

It is significantly more than an Ecutek map, but it's easily worth it if only for the in gear boost compensation, which significantly affects the drive-ability of the car.

I also fundamentally disagree with the boost cut feature on the std ECU believing it to be potentially dangerous as well as flipping annoying! Simtek does away with that. Ecutek on the JECS will do the job, no question, but Simtek will result in a better map, no question! If it's a choice between spending 700ish or 1k then do it right and get the job done right first time IMHO.

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

Ecutek is unstable on the ECU on many are being lost during the mapping process, also the newly discovered features and options are for my01 onwards not my99. fail imo.
Simtek is more money agreed, twin maps is nice, but in my case not necessary as I can dirve to different conditions with a newly discovered technical feature, the ability to control my right foot mafless is nice but by no means essential. I also no good reason for launch control or anti lag, I can launch ok (having done a 12.1s 1.61 0-60' without it) and anti lag just makes a mess of turbos for what is imo a chav feature.
Presently it looks like I may be going back to powerFC, fantastic bit of kit, does what it says on the tin and the commander is a nice feature as well, coupled possibly with a mafsim eliminator, just need to find one now at sensible money.
Spoke with my mapper extensively last night, a credit to Simon@jollygreenmonster.co.uk for giving me the time
Its a minefield out there kids
Solaris is lovely and all singing all dancing but the finances wont allow

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Solaris overkill for your needs by the sound of it.

FWIW

I didn't have anti lag nor launch control enabled. I only ever use the higher boost map (that's what your right foot is for).

I got Simtek purely because it would result in a better map than Ecutek and it did away with the Maf, which apart from the fragility issue, makes the car smoother!

The fact that it's a capable ECU up to much higher levels of tune is a bonus.

Tidgy

depending on budget i'd go for the solaris any day of the week over the simtek.

if you can budget for it i'd do it.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Hey Tidgy.

You had the Solaris fitted - I thought you had Autromics?

I take it your a fan?

scooby-tc

iTrader: (2)

Forget the simtek Andy and go for the PFC.Solaris is the way to go but circa £1800 fitted and mapped is way OTT.EcuTek is just as good as any ecu if you are after a basic day to day map with sensible bhp/trq figures and not into meaningless number chasing

Tidgy

yeah got autronics on mine, solaris wasn't available when i got mine fitted, had it been i would have gone down that route.

after asking a few question behind the schenes about the solaris its origions and how it compares to others (from folks who sell, fit and map most ecus including simtek and ecutek) technology wise o yes mate, big fan.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

It's nowt to do with number chasing. The Jecs ECU on the classic is perfectly capable, but not in the same league as Simtek in terms of features that enhance the drivability of the car, The problem with the Jecs is that you get

a) No in gear boost compensation - you'd need a seperate boost controller like AVCR.
b) Stupid emissions related boost cut crap that can't be mapped out
c) Inferior map resolution to Simtek.
d) It's Maf based and we all know about MY99/00 mafs
e) It Can't be live mapped
f) No dual map facility
g) If your into that kind of thing you can't have ALS or AL

Now, a first time Ecu remap using Ecutek will cost in the late 600s or you can pay 1k and get it done properly.

Easy choice IMHO.

With the new age car featuting the Denso ECU which has improved functionality over the JECs it's more of a decision, but for a classic. Simtek, everytime!

Unless you need the extra functionality of the Solaris is desirable and you can foot the bill.

scooby-tc

iTrader: (2)

You could argue that the simtek isnt in the same league as far as reliability goes over the ekutek the amount of people i know who have had problems with them and 2 had to be sent back for repair.Another guy i know had a simtek fitted and mapped and it lasted 4 hours before he ripped it out.That speaks volumes to me If an aftermarket ECU is preferred over the remapped standard then it would have to be PFC all the way

and where does 1k for a properly mapped ecutek come from?????? i had mine mapped for the first time (newage) for £500 all in and it was mapped by a very well used mapper on here

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

I can give you two examples I know of on here where a re-flashed std ECU has gone kaput! It is a risk when being Ecutek'd

I can tell you of two mappers (Bob Rawle and JGM) if memory serves who took a Motec M800 off their car to do development work on mapping Simtek and have not bothered to revert back. Both have also comented on just how good Simtek's technical support is.

I had Simtek put on my car and it provided BETTER boost control than even the AVCR I had fitted and no longer needed, which in turn provides better boost control than the Apexi. And with the Apexi as far as I know the map resolution isn't as good and you have to retain the MAF.

Simtek installed and mapped 895+vat
Ecutek at normal rates is around 550+ VAT is for a first map on an ecu. If you got it for 500ish all in, it was a group buy!

Ecutek on a classic for most people has had its day IMHO. It's just won't get the best out of the mods you've put on the car. Things have moved on.

Ns04

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

Daren,
Our mapper said no to Ecutek.

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Tek and dawes here

Next stage of mods will include a Solaris.

Turbotits

iTrader: (2)

I switched from a ecutek to a simtek early this year. Its a 2002sti> My findings were that the ecutek was great on the car when it was mildly modded. just an exhaust and panel filter. When i started adding other stuff turbo,injectors,induction kit and so on i was never 100% happy with it. Yes it made good power but sometimes just didnt feel as it should. To the point that when i fitted the last set of mods i had it mapped buy 3 different mapper and still i wasnt totally happy with its manners. So i took the choice to switch to a simtek and its been 100% better from the off> I personally think its cos its mafless and deals much better with induction kits for that reason.

Also mine being an early uk sti didnt have in gear boost control so ive gained a little there>

One difference that may affect peoples choice is that you loose the security of the key coding when using a simtek over ecutek.

scooby-tc

iTrader: (2)

Yep a group buy for just me

scooby-tc

iTrader: (2)

So whats the point of this thread go for PFC it's cheaper does exactly what you need it to do and has a handy commander

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

not cheaper at all.
PowerFC about £400 with commander.
Simon said no to Tek3 after this thread was started, it was a knowledge gathering exercise.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Another factor to consider with Apexi is that many choose to supplement it with the AVCR for better boost control (add, how much are they now, £350) and as I said before, Simtek even trumped the AVCR for boost control on my car!

Fit and forget in my experience.

MartynJ

You seem to be very well informed, could you then inform me how a Power Fc would be of any benefit when compared to the stock ecu on a 99 vehicle.
You still retain the fragile MAF, still have no per gear boost control or even rpm dependant control, no option for dual fuel maps, and no warranty or back up what so ever as Apexi don't even exist anymore.

The SimTek on the 99 for VFM is a no brainer.

scooby-tc

iTrader: (2)

If being 'very well informed' means knowing lots of people who have had issues with the ECU and wish they had saved a bit extra for a Soraris or stayed with PFC then yes i guess i am .Power FC comes with optional commander which lets you see on a screen knock levels,boost levels etc some of the features can be quite useful to see on a screen which isnt an option on standard ecu or simtek.Why would duel maps be of interest when the OP hasnt requested this as an option same goes for in gear changes only really of any use in competitions not everyday work hacks.Apexis dont tend to need sending back to manufacturers for looking at .At the end of the day its down to the OP what he decides to use on his car no one else,but i bet if you asked for people who have had issues with simtek ecu's i think you would be quite shocked.Personally if i had an option of standard ecu or simtek i would stay standard as it does everything i need for minimum outlay.I fully expect the dealers and mapper to defend the simtek as its part of their living but the customer feedback i'm sure would tell a different story

HTH

Bob Rawle

For a MY99-00 car any ecu that uses the maf sensor means you are living with risk, I have probably worked with the Jecs oem ecu more than anyone, I used it myself for two years, then put my Motec kit back in and then, yes as mentioned, put the Simtek in for R & D purposes and simply left it in place. there is nothing to knock the Solaris, its a very good ecu but then it should be at its cost, and I would recommend it to the right level car. But for value and function Simtek is, right now, for me, the option that suits most enquiry's I have had. (Pat when am I getting one for my car?) Thats at any power level btw. Martyn I can map a PowerFC into submission using the Jecs and I do map a lot of Power FC's, again very capable but if you are using the maf and the car is a MY99-00 then stick with OEM. On older cars the PowerFC is a great ecu, just not on the MY99-00 models.

So all these Simtek "issues", what and when, simply put I tend to be close to the top of the Simtek dealer list in terms of dealer purchases and so far I have not had a single issue that I could not resolve, and when I did have one they were all car not ecu related. Bit of a Simtek "hate" campaign, wonder why ?

Fantastic fuel economy, twin maps as std, great boost control, lots of extra feature coming very soon, which will be retro installable (so I am told).

So, at the end of the day a professional ecu specialist should recommend the ecu that best suits the customer objectives and application, everyone has their "comfort zones" but we are here to provide our customers with the right solutions to suit their needs, and that should be the overriding factor when recommending solutions.

cheers

bob

johnlogie

iTrader: (4)

I too have gone down the simtek route, as my car is a My99 to get rid of the maf. I am not running crazy horsepower(300+) but have found a great difference after having it mapped. I have had no issues and would highly recommend it to anyone if it is within there budget.

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

Agree with Bob 100%.

Also very annoying when I advise customers of an option that suits them best they then run with it and other people then misinterprete..

I believe the 2 issues mentioned were both on SimTeks you supplied Bob, updated to the latest software resolved any issue, in fact only one was an issue.. the other was updated to the latest software when recoded to me as a precaution as it was similar build date as the other, 3day turn around including postage.. try that on any other ecu.

The car you mention Daren which had a simtek fitted and then removed was because it stalled at junctions when it got hot which has now been established as an air temp sensor wiring issue.. as it turns out Solaris meets the needs of Mike more anyway - datalogging and knock control (although coming on simtek soon anyway) and 8 maps..
although the air temp wiring issue also caused an issue on the solaris before it was resolved.

The only reason the PFC suits Peanuts better than ecutek is that he has some knowledge and will track the car so to be able to make an adjustment on the commander for fuel (no vpower for example) and monitor the ecu / engine etc..
Mafsim is not an option and as a result I would still find a simtek the better option.

On a car with a large number of mods requiring lots of reflashing of the 99/00 ecu can be a pain and risk of losing the ecu seems to be increasing (age of ecu is response from EcuTek).

Simon

lookout

My previous experience is mainly Efi systems, but recently went for a Haltech system. The Haltech has been very good and easy. Plug&play and came pre-loaded with a map that started and ran the car. The software is pretty intuitive and easy to operate. The guys at Whiteline UK give decent back-up support for the Haltech as well.

You can download the software at Haltech - Engine Management Systems and have a play. That should show you what it can do and how easy it is.

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

Thanks for all the comments, the debate and subsequent opinions are very interesting.
I have spoken offline with simon@jollygreenmonster.co.uk and will continue to work closely with him and follow his recommendations, the proof has been in the pudding and I have not had a map that I was less than delighted with in what is 4years now I think.
I have also consistantly made or exceeded the power and torque levels I have been expecting.
Thanks again.

The reason why I thought about the Ecutek route is primarily the cost, licensed ECUs can be had now from £100, the reason behind Simtek was because I had one in my RA track car and the reason behind the powerFC was that the commander has saved me on a few ocasions (at least once with a failed maf on a 99 that I was able to adjust sufficiently to get home with Simon's technical support and the commander unit).
I was questioning whether anything substantial had changed in the past 4 years that I wasn't aware of and yes, I could have just bypassed this thread and asked Simon, but its always fun to get the opinions of the public.