FMIC for MY99 UK
23 September 2009, 10:51 PM
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FMIC for MY99 UK
I'm gonna get a fmic for my MY99 UK will i need to get rid of the airbox and get an induction kit, like to hear from peoplt that have done this on an MY99
Looking to buy from harvey as recomended
Looking to buy from harvey as recomended
23 September 2009, 11:04 PM
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Obvious initial question: Why are you getting an FMIC? Below 400 bhp or so, there are other options, primarily a newage STi IC, that are every bit as effective (moreso given shorter induction tract) while being cheaper to buy and much easier to fit.
Think you'll find that most FMICs do require an alternative inlet, yes.
Think you'll find that most FMICs do require an alternative inlet, yes.
23 September 2009, 11:28 PM
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Obvious initial question: Why are you getting an FMIC? Below 400 bhp or so, there are other options, primarily a newage STi IC, that are every bit as effective (moreso given shorter induction tract) while being cheaper to buy and much easier to fit.
Think you'll find that most FMICs do require an alternative inlet, yes.
Think you'll find that most FMICs do require an alternative inlet, yes.
23 September 2009, 11:49 PM
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Obvious initial question: Why are you getting an FMIC? Below 400 bhp or so, there are other options, primarily a newage STi IC, that are every bit as effective (moreso given shorter induction tract) while being cheaper to buy and much easier to fit.
Think you'll find that most FMICs do require an alternative inlet, yes.
Think you'll find that most FMICs do require an alternative inlet, yes.
Not very accurate. Below 350 on a classic may agree. An new age TMIC and time involved fitting will equal cost of FMIC.
23 September 2009, 11:54 PM
#5
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the only back to back test out there showed that 300bhp is the threash hold for when a front mount is more effective than a top mount.
standard td04 wont crack 300 though.
standard td04 wont crack 300 though.
24 September 2009, 12:05 AM
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she will look stunning with a fmic, she's immac with low mileage and 18 stamp history feels very tight and is a dream to drive very smooth
Last edited by just123; 24 September 2009 at 12:24 AM.
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24 September 2009, 10:01 AM
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Just123 a hybrid FMIC is a good buy loads of people on here use them myself included, as for induction kit K&N/apexi are well recommended on imprezas, they dont like the wet oily ones
The frount mount might cause a bit more lag though as theres more pipe to fill with air
The frount mount might cause a bit more lag though as theres more pipe to fill with air
24 September 2009, 10:49 AM
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A hybrid top mount or a new age STI top mount if your keeping the TD04 are better options, for sub 330bhp you dont really need a FMIC, but if you do go FMIC then you should run the standard airbox, it is possible to do so with the pipework, otherwise your looking at potential MAF failures with an induction/caik fitted, even if you reduce the vibration by using a fixing mount (like my V5 STI type R has, though reverting back to the standard airbox), and even at sub 30k miles, mine has already gone through 1 maf sensor 
(hence why im reverting back 
)
Tony
(hence why im reverting back )Tony
24 September 2009, 12:18 PM
#13
Out of interest Tony, what dump valve have you got fitted...? Recirc or VTA as we have found that this too makes an impact on the MAF as well as poorly mounted CAI's.
We went through a brand new MAF with the car stationary (so no road vibrations present), was setting up the dump valve so the engine wouldn't stall after full dump, but had to set it so stiff that the shockwaves coming back from the turbo killed the MAF on it's own!!
Have now gone with a Recirculating valve, which dosn't have to be as stiff.
For Just123, this is our engine bay with the FMIC and fabricated heat shield which secures the CAI & MAF housing.
Kim.
We went through a brand new MAF with the car stationary (so no road vibrations present), was setting up the dump valve so the engine wouldn't stall after full dump, but had to set it so stiff that the shockwaves coming back from the turbo killed the MAF on it's own!!
Have now gone with a Recirculating valve, which dosn't have to be as stiff.
For Just123, this is our engine bay with the FMIC and fabricated heat shield which secures the CAI & MAF housing.
Kim.
Last edited by MY94BlueWRX; 24 September 2009 at 12:21 PM. Reason: added more info
24 September 2009, 12:31 PM
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I use to have a vta fitted but it sounded crap (I didnt fit it, it was on there when i bought the car) so now reverted back to a factory standard item 
much nicer
Tony
much nicer Tony
24 September 2009, 12:38 PM
#15
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its running just over 340bhp, but im runnign the standard headers which would help with the figures.
im running an autronics aftermarket ecu, mine spat out 2 maffs while mapping so dumped it in favour of aftermarket.
its a scoobyclinic front mount.
lag is a myth, you'll only get it if you fit a td04 or the cars not setup right. i dont get any and ns04 went from top to front with a map change and he has none either.
im running an autronics aftermarket ecu, mine spat out 2 maffs while mapping so dumped it in favour of aftermarket.
its a scoobyclinic front mount.
lag is a myth, you'll only get it if you fit a td04 or the cars not setup right. i dont get any and ns04 went from top to front with a map change and he has none either.
24 September 2009, 03:34 PM
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Just123 a hybrid FMIC is a good buy loads of people on here use them myself included, as for induction kit K&N/apexi are well recommended on imprezas, they dont like the wet oily ones
The frount mount might cause a bit more lag though as theres more pipe to fill with air
The frount mount might cause a bit more lag though as theres more pipe to fill with air
24 September 2009, 03:39 PM
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There is a way round this, an MAF less ECU such as Simtek, not sure if you have/will need a mappable ECU as it is though and a good mapper will map around the extra piping of the frount mount eliminating an lag
24 September 2009, 03:41 PM
#18
A FMIC will cause more lag - no two ways about it.
If you are doing it just for looks, then go for it (we'll happily even supply you one!). If you are sticking with a standard TD04 you will feel a nice improvement by changing the Y pipes to Samcos on your current TMIC or fit an STi TMIC.
If you are doing it just for looks, then go for it (we'll happily even supply you one!). If you are sticking with a standard TD04 you will feel a nice improvement by changing the Y pipes to Samcos on your current TMIC or fit an STi TMIC.
24 September 2009, 03:56 PM
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BTW Just123, Welcome to the slippery slope of modifying
Here`s a handy site from a bloke who knows a thing or two
AndyForrestPerformance
enjoy
Here`s a handy site from a bloke who knows a thing or two
AndyForrestPerformance
enjoy
24 September 2009, 04:01 PM
#21
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and what do you base this on bob? cos its complete tosh.
there was a whole thread that went on about it, you even sugested they wern;t an improvment performance wise over the standard top mount, you never had any information back up that statement.
if there is any lag at all, it equates to extremly small amounts, that is undetectable by any normal human.
24 September 2009, 04:11 PM
#22
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in fact heres someone who went from top to front and reported on the lag issues
https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...e-go-fmic.html
short version there is no lag
https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...e-go-fmic.html
short version there is no lag
24 September 2009, 04:21 PM
#25
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dont forget you arn't filling the void from a vacume, its already filled with air.
they are looking for any tiny slight bit of advantage possible even if not perceptable by thge driver, and if your throwing hundred grand at a car then its worth doing, plus removes an obstruction in the form of pipes going all over the engine bay.
as said based on back to back things lag isn't an issue, the people who claim it is canot back it up with anything other than my opinion.
they are looking for any tiny slight bit of advantage possible even if not perceptable by thge driver, and if your throwing hundred grand at a car then its worth doing, plus removes an obstruction in the form of pipes going all over the engine bay.
as said based on back to back things lag isn't an issue, the people who claim it is canot back it up with anything other than my opinion.
24 September 2009, 04:23 PM
#26
You must have a FMIC fetish or something. It's all been done in the past.
This is from the top tuner in the UK (imho):
This is from the top tuner in the UK (imho):
Regards the FMIC lag issue, lets put some numbers on it.
From a quick calculation (sizes from memory so just approx) I calculate that a 2000 cc engine running at say 3500rpm consumes 52 ltrs of free air per second, assuming a VE of 90%.
A typical TMIC consists of
Pipework 200mm @ 50mm bore = 0.4 ltrs
Cooler core 400x170x60 (x40% assumed occupied by charge air) = 1.6 ltrs
End tanks 400x60x30x2 = 1.4 ltrs
TMIC total volume 3.4 ltrs
FMIC
Pipework, 3 mtrs? @70mm (some at 50mm, some at 75mm, average 70mm)
3000 @ 70mmbore = 11.5 ltrs
Core 600x300x75 (x40% occupancy) = 5.4 ltrs
End tanks 300 x 75 x 75 x2 = 3.4 ltrs
FMIC total volume = 20.3 ltrs
Additional volume within FMIC v TMIC system 20.3 - 3.4 = 16.9 ltrs
If our engine consumes at 52 ltrs/sec then 16.9 ltrs will take an additional 0.32 secs to pressurise.
0.32 secs doesn't sound like much but on a car that does 0-60 in say 4.6 secs, 2nd gear may last 2 seconds, 0.32seconds is a 16% time delay.
Add all those 0.32 secs together on each gearshift and you start to understand how the quickest 1/4 mile 2.0 std internals cars (classics) all run TMIC's.
I'm referring above to 2.0 classic Impreza's on std internals in the 340-390bhp range, running mid 11's on the 1/4 mile at 114-119mph, I know of 4 of them all on TMIC's. Its not the power thats making these cars so fast, its the instant response
Andrew (lunar tick) how are your charge temperatures on the TMIC now with over 400bhp ? I assume Paul was happy that they were safe during mapping ?
From a quick calculation (sizes from memory so just approx) I calculate that a 2000 cc engine running at say 3500rpm consumes 52 ltrs of free air per second, assuming a VE of 90%.
A typical TMIC consists of
Pipework 200mm @ 50mm bore = 0.4 ltrs
Cooler core 400x170x60 (x40% assumed occupied by charge air) = 1.6 ltrs
End tanks 400x60x30x2 = 1.4 ltrs
TMIC total volume 3.4 ltrs
FMIC
Pipework, 3 mtrs? @70mm (some at 50mm, some at 75mm, average 70mm)
3000 @ 70mmbore = 11.5 ltrs
Core 600x300x75 (x40% occupancy) = 5.4 ltrs
End tanks 300 x 75 x 75 x2 = 3.4 ltrs
FMIC total volume = 20.3 ltrs
Additional volume within FMIC v TMIC system 20.3 - 3.4 = 16.9 ltrs
If our engine consumes at 52 ltrs/sec then 16.9 ltrs will take an additional 0.32 secs to pressurise.
0.32 secs doesn't sound like much but on a car that does 0-60 in say 4.6 secs, 2nd gear may last 2 seconds, 0.32seconds is a 16% time delay.
Add all those 0.32 secs together on each gearshift and you start to understand how the quickest 1/4 mile 2.0 std internals cars (classics) all run TMIC's.
I'm referring above to 2.0 classic Impreza's on std internals in the 340-390bhp range, running mid 11's on the 1/4 mile at 114-119mph, I know of 4 of them all on TMIC's. Its not the power thats making these cars so fast, its the instant response
Andrew (lunar tick) how are your charge temperatures on the TMIC now with over 400bhp ? I assume Paul was happy that they were safe during mapping ?
24 September 2009, 05:50 PM
#27
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BTW Just123, Welcome to the slippery slope of modifying
Here`s a handy site from a bloke who knows a thing or two
AndyForrestPerformance
enjoy
Here`s a handy site from a bloke who knows a thing or two
AndyForrestPerformance
enjoy
I'm enjoying every minute of this modifying lark, good talking point and learn some intresting points.
Does anybody know if there is a fmic i can get that lets me keep my original airbox as i'm not keen on removing this on my MY99
24 September 2009, 06:06 PM
#28
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if that was true then y isn't it enough to make it feel like it? you should know that on paper things arn't the same as in the real world, those figures just dont corrilate with what happens to the car.
to think about how the gear change and presure works then you have to take into acount that the airflow is much higher than that, you come off the throttle, reducing the required airflow at much much higher rpm (in my car 6200 so its bearly double the 3500) the drop in pressure as you change gear isn't instant so the calculation above just doesn't work because the pressure hasn't disapated to zero.
real world comparisons just don't hold up to what you say, and that calculation doesn't work either, its much more complicated than that simple calculation.
to think about how the gear change and presure works then you have to take into acount that the airflow is much higher than that, you come off the throttle, reducing the required airflow at much much higher rpm (in my car 6200 so its bearly double the 3500) the drop in pressure as you change gear isn't instant so the calculation above just doesn't work because the pressure hasn't disapated to zero.
real world comparisons just don't hold up to what you say, and that calculation doesn't work either, its much more complicated than that simple calculation.
24 September 2009, 06:08 PM
#29
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Thanks for the info ra dunk, I live about 15 mins from andy forrest
I'm enjoying every minute of this modifying lark, good talking point and learn some intresting points.
Does anybody know if there is a fmic i can get that lets me keep my original airbox as i'm not keen on removing this on my MY99
I'm enjoying every minute of this modifying lark, good talking point and learn some intresting points.
Does anybody know if there is a fmic i can get that lets me keep my original airbox as i'm not keen on removing this on my MY99
i dont think there is one, the pipe work for the front mount normaly runs inside the front wings and fould the existing setup
24 September 2009, 08:37 PM
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Thanks for the info ra dunk, I live about 15 mins from andy forrest
I'm enjoying every minute of this modifying lark, good talking point and learn some intresting points.
Does anybody know if there is a fmic i can get that lets me keep my original airbox as i'm not keen on removing this on my MY99
I'm enjoying every minute of this modifying lark, good talking point and learn some intresting points.
Does anybody know if there is a fmic i can get that lets me keep my original airbox as i'm not keen on removing this on my MY99