speedy steve

hey ho was only a matter of time, trusty banger finally burst its head gasket or possibly both as well as radiator ( platic end ) & upper hose........pretty much all at once I think after an unusually long run.....

Anyway, have replaced the hose & rad, now get away with short low boost runs before overheating, just far enough to get to work fortunately.....

I take it its an engine out the top job, I have to do this at the roadside as I have no facilities elsewhere.... I'm a reasonable spanner monkey but do I need anything "unusual" such as star drives or any stupid stuff like that...

once out is the engine a one man "drag" or a 2 man lift ?

HG's, rocker covers, timing belt, cam seal, plugs anything else I should do while there ? must keep budget down........

SS

harvey

iTrader: (48)

You are not going to do this at the side of the road unless you have some sort of lifting facility to get the engine in and out.

speedy steve

was thinking of improvised wooden frame & chain hoist or perhaps hire an engine hoist for a couple of days just to lift out & in, the lift / drag question is for dragging it into the house as I really dont wana pull the engine apart outside if I can avoid it so the actual "operation" will be in the kitchen !

mr_D

iTrader: (12)

in the kitchen.
i love it

(i know this post is not of use but i envy the fact you can do it in the kitchen)

oadamo

iTrader: (1)

dont forget to make use of the dish washer when you have it in bits lol.
adam

dazdavies

iTrader: (22)

You're in for some fun, yes indeedy

Hire an engine hoist for the weekend. I would also advise finding somehwhere to do it.
On the road outside a house will be a fecking nightmare.

Not to say it cant be done but it will be a ball ache from start to finish.

dazdavies

iTrader: (22)

I would also say don't do anything in the kitchen, no matter how much you clean or drain you'll still get oil everywhere. Once you've cleaned everything then by all means reassemble but even then you'd be suprised how much mess you can make even with a "clean" engine.

fastmike

iTrader: (4)

This reminds me of the time my mum came back off holiday to find a hillman imp transaxle in bits in the sink.... bathed in Jizer degreaser lol

fastboyslim

iTrader: (2)

This is what you need.

HEAD GASKET COMPOSIT EJ20G 2
INLET VALVE STEM OIL SEAL 8
EXHAUST VALVE STEM OIL SEAL 8
VALVE COLLET GC8 32
RH ROCKER COVER GASKET EJ20G 1
LH ROCKER COVER GASKET EJ20G 1
ROCKER CHEST GASKET EJ20G (S 4
ROCKER BOLT SEAL GC8 11/92-8 12
HALF MOON ROCKER CHEST SEAL 4
INLET MANIFOLD GASKET V1/2/3 2
EXHAUST GASKET MANIFOLD UP P 1
EXHAUST GASKET MANIFOLD - HE 2
And a head skim 2

speedy steve

thanks for the detailed list, I take it youve done this before !

I take it the head skim is definately gonna be required ? can I measure this when I have the heads off ? if it needs it, then so be it but no doubt itll cost..
I finding a decent shop may be a problem.

SS

speedy steve

forgot to ask can I reuse the head bolts or are they "stretchy" ?
also would fleabay 310127867450 be ok or will I wish I'd spent more when they leak again ?

Playsatan

iTrader: (2)

You can lift them out but it's not a 2 man job, at least no 2 men that I know. We had 4 and it still wasn't exactly light. The problem is it's not just a straight lift, you've got to negotiate the mounts, bellhousing bolts and the input shaft. A good bit of wiggling can be required and bent over at full stretch can tire your arms out quickly.

Once we had it on the floor we realised that there was no way it was going back in without a hoist. More bodies wouldn't have helped aither as there is only so much space for people to get round it. A long block can be carried by two guys no problem when it is out so getting it in the house should no be a problem. Do you have an engine stand for it once you get there though? Before we had one we used two drilled blocks of wood for the engine mounts to rest on as if you sit it on the sump it will just roll about. A stand is better for sealing the rocker covers though as if the motor is on the level oil will constantly seep out.

I personally never skimmed my heads and I've not had any issues but the block never overheated. If it need doing and you don't bother you'll double your cost and effort.

Tucker82

iTrader: (7)

You'll deffo need a hoist mate - I bought one and went in with a couple of mates - £189+vat with an engine stand so well worth it as it'll cost £30 for 2 days to hire one..

Head gasket is a shi*e job tho - messy and will cost you a few quid just in parts alone...

Plenty of help available on here...

STI_Baly

iTrader: (23)

I suggest that that you do use a lifting contraption preferably a proper engine hoist.

Lots of time and the patience required if its your first time to ensure that the engine build process goes as planned.

fastboyslim

iTrader: (2)

I blew a head gasket so was keen to do the job myself so i had done some research, the list was emailed to me from Roger Clark Motorsport. Top guys. I have chosen to go down he 2.5 road so am still saving.

The head does not always need to be skimed, if there is more than a 0.05mm warp it will need to be skimmed but as the heads are pretty short they seem to hold well. A lot of the time it really is just a gasket that was let by.

Good luck fella.

speedy steve

thanks for all your feedback guys, Ive managed to convince a workmate to let me use his garage for a weekend, but have to clear it of junk 1st as payment, going onsite for a couple of weeks work, no overtime unfotunately but at least on "expenses" so existance doesnt cost me much, that should help pay for the parts I'm gonna need

Just going to keep creaping around below 2000rpm & topping up with water until I can clear this garage, finish the onsite work & get back home, probably gonna be start of next month now before I can cover the parts costs & have a weekend to myself to get started on this.

Just hope I dont end up with a pile of scrap that I can't put back together.......

Only joking I'm pretty sure I can do it just not sure how long its gonna take me...

Been searching for a decent illustrated engine removal / rebuild thread, but having trouble with the search function, the best I've found was the DIY budget rebuild thread
( 100 odd posts ) very interesting but way beyond what I want to do.. can anyone suggest a decet thread for the job I'm about to attack ?

SS

speedy steve

Phew, finally got started on this at the weekend ( Sat morning )
as mentioned I've borrowed a mates garage & I managed to buy an engine hoist ( very 2nd hand ) for £60 which is just about up to the job..

Anyways pulled all the ancilliarys & other required bolts for the engine pull in 4 hours which I was reasonably please with as its the 1st time.... took a pew photos along the way so hopefully can sus out how to put everything back on

The "interesting" bit was actually pulling the engine off the transmission, wouldnt believe how much battering / prizing / levering / swearing it took to split the dam casings... not to mention multiple checks that I hadnt missed a bolt.. which I hadnt... 2 tiny little dowel pins can take a serious hold !
anyway took best part of an hour to split the engine from tranny & then lifted out easily.....

Now the tricky bit of splitting up the engine.. looking for suggestions as to how to slacken the crank pulley bolt & the camshaft bolts without the appropriate peg type spanner, tried doing this before engine was pulled by the way but as its an auto I didnt seem able to lock up the engine by either putting it in gear or in park suppose the torque converter doesnt work like that ? so now I have the engine on the deck & cant get the main pulley off which is a bit of a show stopper....

I thought about locking one of the cam pulleys & working against the belt but though that would be dangerous either stripping or jumping teeth..

any ideas ?

thanks,

SS

Splitpin

Put some anti-seize on the mating faces and the dowel holes when it goes back together. At least then if there's a next time you should have a much easier job.

Impact wrench for the crank pulley bolt. Cams, you might, if you're lucky, shift them with a powerful impact gun, but you probably won't be, so covers off and hold the hex on the shafts with a spanner with a sturdy tube over it, and a long breaker bar on the bolt.

Don't forget to rotate the timing to the "safe" position before you whip it all off.

speedy steve

thanks for the responce splitpin, finally managed to remove all the pulleys the main crank bolt was a complete b.strd used a strap wrench backed up with a pari of mole grips to help with traction on the pulley a 3 ft cheater bar & several whacks with a big hammer while I stood on the bar ! that bolt was seriously tight but its off now....

ended up shaping a bit of wood to jam btn the cam pulleys ( contra rotating in the "free space" ) sharp "crack" with a hammer & they were remarkably easy !

before I pulled the belt off I thought Id better check the timing setup & found something odd basically if I get close to the crank setup marks & stop when RH cams ( turbo side ) are aligned with each other & the head marks, the crank has not reached its marks yet ( CW rotation ) also the LH cams are not aligned if I turn the crank a little further CW to alignment marks the LH cams nearly line up but of course the RH ones are way out is this normal ? seams quite a long way out but the car has been running fine for years ?
( I have pics but have no idea how to post them.. )

Pulled the ex manifold off last night too but by the time Id ground all the heat shield bolts off ( corroded beyond recognition ) it was dark & time for bed.

Inlet manifold tonight & then hopefully split the heads off, really hopeing I can find a clear visible sign of HG failure just to chear myself up & confirm Im not doing all this for nothing !

speedy steve

ok, got the heads off tonight wish I'd bought an engine stand as its a pain in the **** chasing the block about trying to undo the head bolts by yourself, & by heck they were tight ! still have to learn the hard way

No visible signs of gasket damage unfortunately was hoping I'd see some kind of "flowpath" from cylinders to water jacket but no such luck.

Should I be able to see something ? or is a leak normally invisible ?

( there was no water / oil cross mixing but water was being pushed out of the system very quickly at the slightest hint of boost & would eventually purge ( 10 mins ) itself dry even off boost )

will give the heads a thorough cleaning tomorrow night & try to measure em up, I take it a decent metal ruler & fealer gauges is the way to go ?

what else should I check at this point ?

Starting to worry it may be something else......???

SS

allza

Check the heads for any cracks, also the bores. You can usually see where HG has gone. Usually one cylinder will be cleaner so look around that part of the gasket.

speedy steve

would cracks be visible to the naked eye ?

Ill give the parts a thorough going over tonight but am a little worried it may be more than a simple gasket change...

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Well, whilst it's not obvious, then the only other things it could be are blocked water gallies or cracks in the engine block halves/heads and/or water pump/stat.

As a matter of course, I'd defo replace the stat and pump to rule those out as well. Relatively inexpensive; a recon pump from GGR is £39 (I have one fitted - no issues) and a normal Subaru OEM 78deg stat surely can't be too much(?)

I just hope that it wasn't a simple airlock!!!

BTW, don't fit the composite fibre HGs - use uprated MLS STi 3/4 or Cosworth or Cometic ones! 1.6mm is the thickness to keep the C.R. as Subaru intended.

mickywrx

iTrader: (29)

Just as a side thought, did you check the thermostat?

speedy steve

Hi, yeah I did check the thermostat & its fine, & definately not just an airlock.

Re head measuring have tried the ruler & feeler gauge method & oil + plate glass method
neither of which were exactly conclusive, although generally flat it looks like the outer edges of the mating faces are higher than the centre of the mating face.

I'm not really sure how to describe this ?? both heads appear identical so maybe its supposed to be like this ??

not really sure what to do next, will check the water pump tonight.. ?

SS

fastboyslim

iTrader: (2)

It's not offen that these heads warp. Due to them been pretty short they seem to hold up better than say your regular inline 4. Not to say they never warp but there are loads of people on here that have suffered head gasket failure and rebuilt a motor without a skim. I am one of them. If you do use a feeler gauge and a steel rule the warping limit is something like 0.05mm.

speedy steve

OK cleaned up everything I could & have started reasembly, having not found anything conclusive not too optomistic about this being any better after the rebuild...

do these engines have liner seals that may be causing symptoms of a head gasket failure ?

hodgy0_2

good thread -- fingers crossed mate

I had a similiar problem in a Golf MK11 16v -- couldn't see where the HG had failed

but changed it anyway (luckily an engine in situ job) sorted the problem though

speedy steve

here's hoping I'm as lucky, dropped the engine back in last night, was a damned sight easier than pulling it out was..........

will be heading back out to finish the job on Friday night possibly Sat morining will keep yah all posted on the outcome.... assuming I dont slit my wrists when it fails again.....

oh & next time I will take more photos ! my memory aint what it used to be when I wert a lad, now where the hell does that stupid little hose go .......

SS

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Which hose?