Black-Hawk

iTrader: (4)

A mate of mine at work is fitting a recon ej20 engine into his sons my97 impreza, he got the engine from a specialist in birmingham and its apparently been sourced from japan, he's fitted all the timing gear off his old ej20 to the recon unit but it wont time up, he put the new belt on but when he turns the crank 1 full rotation it throws the belt out by 1 tooth, 2 full turns of the crank 2 teeth ect, could this be the wrong belt? is there more than 1 ej20 belt? what else could cause this problem??? Thanks

WMS

iTrader: (2)

Would it be SMR engines by any chance? If it is they are not recon, they are sourced from various breakers around the country, steam cleaned (sometimes) and sprayed silver! Bad news, really bad news.
Thats got nothing to do with the cam timing though. What do you mean by throwing one tooth out? The belt has a fixed numder of teeth so as long as it does'nt actually jump teeth on the pulleys it can't go wrong! assuming it's the correct belt? all '4 cam' cam belts are the same though.

merlin24

iTrader: (1)

There is only 1 cam belt to fit the EJ series.
Make sure you have removed the tensioner locking pin as the belt can jump if left in and if your trying to line the marks on the belt to the pulley marks when turning it over by hand, have fun as you need to turn it over approx 72 turns before it lines back up again.

Mick

Black-Hawk

iTrader: (4)

Whats happening is when you line up all the timing marks, remove tensioner pin, and turn the crank so the pullies line up on the next full rotation the timing mark on the belt has moved by about 1" forward so is it normal that it does'nt return to the marks on the belt after 1 revolution??

merlin24

iTrader: (1)

The marks on the belt are only for initial installation - as long as the marks on the pulleys and crank gear line up after a couple of revolutions , all is ok.

Mick

Black-Hawk

iTrader: (4)

Cheers i'll check it out tomorrow

Hobstar82

Yer, that is the marks on the pullies and crank gear to marks on the inner timing chest, not the belt! Just to clarify

Black-Hawk

iTrader: (4)

NEW INFO, as original post but the car is a 2001 wrx, each full revolution of the engine sends the timing out by 1 tooth, any ideas.

GpMarty

iTrader: (7)

hi,as merlin,says once the belt is set in position and your happy all the timing marks are lined up it would take app 72 rotations of the crank pulley before they line up again.

Hobstar82

Quite simple. Line the marks on the pullies with the marks on the engine. Fit the belt with lines on belt with marks on pullies. Tension belt. Turn engine over twice by hand on the crank (crank turns two 360 degree revolutions to one 360 degree revolution of cams) until pointers line up on pullies to engine. If they do job done!! The belt lines will NOT line up again unless you turn engine over about 72 times, so forget the lines.

You really cant go wrong buddy!!

As a meerkat once said...simples

Black-Hawk

iTrader: (4)

They dont, im in a maindealer garage we are a Nissan dealership and a service centre for , Fiat, MG Rover, renault, and peugeot, one of the hi-tecs and the service manager who both know their stuff are scratching their heads abit, they thoght the belt maybe had to many teeth and the hi-tec recons if you turn it 4 full rotations its going to hit valves, were all abit

Hobstar82

In your original post you said its throwing the timing mark out on the belt.

What your actually sayin is the marks on the cam gears are not lining back up with the pointers on the heads when you line the crank upto TDC!?!

Have you counted the teeth of the new and old belt to check they match? Plus why did you swap timing gears in the first place?

Black-Hawk

iTrader: (4)

The coment about the marks on the belt where a lack of understanding by myself, thats the plan to count the teeth on the belts even though i understand there is only 1 belt for the ej20, the recon/used engine has come from japan without any timing gear so all pullies,guides,tensioners ect where from the deceiced engine.

merlin24

iTrader: (1)

Are the cam pulley's located on the dowel's/cams correctly and the retaining bolts torqued ?
If not, the cam pulley can slip when the engine is rotated.

Mick

Black-Hawk

iTrader: (4)

Thanks for the help, anymore possible reasons for the engine timing being out by a tooth on each full rotation, im going to sit the hi-tec and service manager down infront of this thread on monday and they can look over the possabilitys, need to get this sorted for the guy now its been going on for long enough, by the way you'll have to bare with my lack of mechanical knowledge im not a mechanic im a bodyshop controler/sprayer/panel beater

Hobstar82

Ok bud with you now

In the 10 yrs I've been in the trade its happened to me twice where the belt is made incorrectly on different cars so its not often but can happen. Or someone has put the wrong belt in the box.

As with what Mick said, check pullies are correctly fitted/located on their keyways.

Another option is to fit old belt, turn over engine and see if pointers line up.

Also make sure the new belt is being fitted in the correct direction of rotation.

Can I just ask, what happened to old engine for it to need replacing? Wasn't cam belt failure was it?

pogues

if the belt turns out to be the right one, make sure the belt tensioner is ok if it's knackered that will be you trouble. fitted a new belt for the brothering law and his tensioner wouldn't hold the tension with the new belt, refitted the old belt untill new tensioner turned up and replaced the lot.

Black-Hawk

iTrader: (4)

Excellent, i'll get them to check it out on monday, bottom end i think

Black-Hawk

iTrader: (4)

Found out today that the original belt that was fitted to the car before the bottom end failiure is the same as the new one and is also taking the engine timing out one tooth each full rotaition so that puts the belt out of the running,

Hobstar82

There are two timing belt KIT options, one for WRX + UK Turbo upto 1996 and one for WRX + UK Turbo 1997 on. What the differences are I dont know! Different toothed idler, tensioner or belt maybe?? If your mates original engine is from a 2001 EJ series then one would assume that the recon engine is from an upto '96 EJ series. I cant find any info on different size/amount of teeth on the cam pulleys. I think the best option is to get hold of the ppl who supplied engine and find out whats goin on or if they can supply the right parts! Or fork out more $$$ for the other timing kit and risk it still being wrong!!!

Hobstar82

Spoke to our parts supplier today and the only difference between kits is the width of the belt so this aint goona be the problem.

The last thing I can think of is make sure cam gears are on correct cams and located properly and like you said check condition of tensioner as this could be making the belt jump if not tensioning correctly.

Good luck and will be interested to hear how and when you've sorted it!

grahamfrary

Count the number of teeth on the crank pulley and cam pulleys. There should be twice as many teeth on each cam as on the crank. Thats a simple fact of life. The number of teeth on the belt is completely irrelevant.
Graham

merlin24

iTrader: (1)

It's the tensioner which is different in the 2 kits above - the belt is the same.
You have got the woodruff key fitted on the snout of the crankshaft as this locates and drives the crank timing belt gear ??
If it is fitted, make sure it is not rounded off due to the front pulley being loose at some time.

Mick

Black-Hawk

iTrader: (4)

Thanks guys, i'll get him to re-double chech the cam pullies and all other possible areas, the engine is still not in the car, its sat in our workshop on a tyre, he wanted to get it timed up before droping it in, makes sence me thinks, we have been turning engine over by hand so belt not jumping

Slowboy Racing

As the engine is out It may help to post a few detailed pics of your timing set up.

Black-Hawk

iTrader: (4)

Will do

grahamfrary

As I said before, count the teeth on the crank and cam pulleys. If there aren't twice as many teeth on each crank pulley as the cam pulley, then you have the wrong cam pulleys.

kingmikeyuk

sent some info to your e-mail , like grahamfrary says, i think you are looking for a problem that aint there .

Just had my e-mail returned , got some info if you got another address

Black-Hawk

iTrader: (4)

The timing gear is off the original engine, not sure of the origin of the replacment unit.

Black-Hawk

iTrader: (4)

PM sent.