markGT

Hi,

I'm looking for opinions on the pictures below. I have attached photos of body work with rust on it and chassis with rust on it. What I'd like to know if there are any bodywork/rust experts on here is how long would it take for rust like that to develop on a car.

Body work photos first.....













Chassis rust.....





















As you can see from the photos the rust is horrendous espcially on the chassis and suspension etc. Cheers in advance..

m@t STImulation

iTrader: (3)

hope your not driving it

JonMc

iTrader: (51)

Do you live near the sea as the extra salt in the air may account for this? Also, is it an import, if so it may not have been properly rust-proofed when it was brought across, although looking at the pics I'm guessing not. That'll take a while to develop, but is worse than most scoobies I've seen and worse even that mine which I thought was quite bad.

My first concern would be to check all the structural points, clean it up with a wire brush and make sure it is only surface rust.

carl heath

i work in bodyshop and what i find is you can never gage rust,sometimes it is only surface rust and will grind/linish/da off and some of the times it doesnt look too bad untill you get grinder on it and panel falls apart( I DONT MEAN YOUR SMALL BITS ON INNER DOOR) if you can afford to have small bits sorted on inner doors then do so as will only get worse,if rust is well in to a panel you will never stop it only hold it back a while.i would take the advice of jonmc and clean up the rust under car to make sure it is surface or not.hth

markGT

I can't say too much about the car at the moment as I'm taking legal proceedings against the seller and the so called professional company I had inspect it before I bought it. The so called company who did the inspection said there was no rust on the chassis or body work whatsoever. When presented with the above evidence they have claimed that all this rust has appeared within the three and a half week interim period between the inspection and me picking the car up!!!!!

I've had two garage reports done on the car last week and the reports said that the chassis rust would take a minimum of three years to get that bad in very bad conditions, the rust on the bodywork anywhere between 8 months to two years. The company in question is probably the most well known Breakdown Company in the UK and it hasn't got two letters in it.

I live in France, (I am English) and I do buy quite a lot of cars from the UK. I generally use the AA to do my inspections (very good), but they couldn't do it at the time I needed them to do it. So I went with the other one (as you can see huge mistake). When I picked the car up I had a very brief look around it as the report and the engineer said that the car was mint, (the only defect on the report was a sticking front LH break calliper) it’s only done 22K . The HPI and mileage reports check turn out to verify all this and it was a one owner vehicle!!! As I pointed out to the company in question, I didn’t have a good look around the car as I had paid them a hell of a lot money to do it on my behalf.

The car was collected from the north east of England but nowhere near the coast. I'm not driving the car at the mo as I've been told by the garage that the wish bones and certain components could give up the ghost at anytime; I'll keep you posted.

Neil..

iTrader: (35)

Looks just like any other UK classic IMHO...

The 'chassis rust' is simply usual surface rust, and doesn't look structural so therefore wouldn't be a concern on any report.

The low mileage may in actual fact be a contributing factor to the amount of rust also...
Having a car stood still isn't always a good idea for a car in our country.

The bodywork rust also looks standard issue.

Mark Mac

Mark,
My company has just finished a lot of flood repairs in the NE around the Hull area and your car looks like it's been stood in salt water.....

Even the welded and undersealed parts of the body are rusting. I think your "3 Years of Rust" reports are about right.

Good Luck..

markGT

The car is actually from the Hexham area and the guy that I bought it from lives on the top of a very high hill. He gave me full history of the car, literally every receipt for the car and full service history. Its shows from the service history records from 2005 the car only did 1000 miles, he said it had been kept in storage at his house and SORN'd, but as you can imagine I take what he says with a large pinch of salt. He said he knew nothing of the rust yet he is supposed to be an enthusiast, I know every inch of my other cars both top and bottom.

I took the front wheel off today and the calipers have been painted and so has the rust, as he bought the car brand new and therefore the only ever owner, it must have been he that painted the calipers, so he quite clearly new about the rust. I agree with you I think its been stood in water for a long time hence the rust underneath.

This isnt my first scoob its my forth and (second classic) and I haven't seen anything like it. For the *** to say that the rust wasn't there when they inspected is impossible and insulting. The rust on the body work is IMHO due to the fact that the car hasn't been dried properly when washed and is due to water ingress.

Everytime I look at the car I could cry

Mark Mac

Mark.
Was it a farm, some nasty " **** " if it's a dairy farm. Very corrosive

markGT

No, he lives on a very nice residential estate.

carl heath

i would most likely go for water damage theory,try pulling up carpets and door cards and see if theres any water staines and marks,cant see that sort of rust from just standing still a lot,i feel for you mate as i would be so upset at breakdown companies poor advise,good luck .

markGT

You may be on to something as the carpet looks brand new, I've never seen a second hand car with such a good carpet. No flaterning of the pile etc, just in pristine condition, looks like I'll be lifting the carpet later today.

StickyMicky

the boot shut line rust is any easy fix to be honest,

the door drain holes, you should block them up with tape and fill the inside the door cavity with waxoil/grease/something, it would probably last for years and years without issue

most of the chassis rust is as above, simple uk turbo on the surface type stuff, scrape the crap off, treat the metal and shultz over the top of it to protect it, i did all these jobs on my classic about 6 years when i first got it and never had a problems since.

i would also recommend, taking out the sides of the boot car pet and looking at the rear inner arches, get plenty of waxoil/spray grease in behind the panel so it can soak into the arch lip join

i have just done the inside rear arch lips on my new car and its only a 53 plate machine lol, its a force of habit from my old vauxhall days

Mark Mac

Time to talk to a solicitor, Mark..
Good luck..

markGT

Thanks for the advice.

This is my forth impreza, the last classic I had was a 97 and had 4 times the mileage of this one and the underneath was in superb condition, this car has only done 22 thousand miles. I've been told by two independent garages not to drive it.

Now miles are miles, it doesn't matter how long a duration it’s over, however this isn’t the issue. The issue is that only a blind man could miss this corrosion and to say that it appeared within a 3.4 week period is laughable . I've been ripped off by both the pervious owner and the ***. I paid top money for the car as it was described as new by the owner and the best second hand car the so called engineer had seen. As you can see from the photos this isn’t the case and isn’t acceptable from a company like the ***.

As I said in my first post I've taken legal advice and due to the amount of proof that I have against the pervious owner and the *** they don’t have a leg to stand on. However I know it going to be a long drawn out process, I've got another 4 cars I can drive in the meantime and I've got the will and the money to take it all the way.

Keep an eye on Watch Dog in the coming months.

StickyMicky

What year is this one?

Rice Rocket

iTrader: (23)

What do you mean if its a dairy farm? just wondering as I keep mine there and noticed that theres abit of excess rust starting to appear very quickly in the last few months?

Thanks

Ricey

markGT

Its a September 99 on a V plate. The car history shows that from the previous owner buying it new (I have the original bill of sale) he did around 21.5K in it up until 2005 and then no miles after that as it was SORN'd from then. why he didnt drive it from then is a complete mystery. It's now just turned over to 23k as it was around 700 miles back to where I live in France, plus going around various garages getting quotes for the work (not short distances).

green un

my classic that had a few miles under its belt didnt have rust like that, i would argue what people are saying thats normal for a uk classic thats bullshine!
looks like its had saltwater/flood damage like you say get the carpets up and have a good look round.

hope you get to the bottom of it and get it sorted.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Doesn't look that bad to me. Looks about avarage for a 8 to 10yr car IMO.

Whilst my old MY97 is not as rusty...it was garaged for the 7 years of its life, and went for a 3 year period of being used as a summer car and its latter years used for short journeys. But even then the innner bumpers radiator bracket ARBs, wishbones, struts and hub carriers has alot of surface rust. Lower radiator brackets are looking decidedly iffy now (as in ready to fall of, Matt if you read this, don't say I didn't warn you ). Rust behind the front and rear bumpers was also becomming an issue, especially on the seams. Thus my latter year of ownership did involve me going over various areas with the waxoyl gun.


Rust as in this pic : http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/n...rust_boot2.jpg is just rubbing from teh boot rubber...when new there is a anti-wear sticker, this rubs through, through the paint, then bare metal. As such, every classic impreza I've seen has an issue here sooner or later.

To cure that, just blob some grease or waxoyl on the wear patch, this will allow the rubber to move and protect from rust at the same time.


As for the underside rust; parking on grass, building sites (cement dust - nasty), near the coast or lost of winter usage without regularly washing off the underside will all take its toll.

Rust on the door hinges looks like from it being "adjusted" for whaver reason (Point to note: doors often drop from wear and tear, thus needs the hinge adjusting to allow it to shut correctly again, so its not a sure sign of bodywork repairs), I can't tell from teh pic if the shadow is overspray or just dirt.

eljay

Looks like its been sat in water for a while to me.
There was some flooding in NE England in 2005 iirc.
Either way that did NOT happen in 3 weeks

Hope you get it sorted.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Oh, not sure what year car it is, but a its good guage of underside/chassis rust levls is to compare your car car against a same year ford Fiesta (must be pre2002).

Pre 2002 Fiestas have poor corrosion proofing (by modern standards at least) so, the level of "natural" rust for a similar year/mileage of car can be assertained by looking underneath one of these (I kid you not ). If its worse that a same year/mile Fiesta kept outdoors then I would be very suspicious.

(on the other hand my old 1982 jag is far less rusty...but it leaks alot of oil from every orifice, consequently, the underside is coated with a generous amount of "corrosion protection" )

StickyMicky

reading some of the MG forums (i know, i know) a lot of the lads with the MK2 zs 180 are getting corrosion advisory for the underneath of the car (2005-2006) due to excessive rust

cost cutting during the ends of the production runs were driving down the amount of protection added to the cars.....

while i agree that 3 and a half weeks of rust is an insane figure to try and belive, i suspect the car has been simply left to the elements, had a bit of rust on it and the inspector chap is just a useless lazy clown who could not be arsed to bend down and look under the car.

i am not sure that the seller is to blame?

people have different opinions of what a "mint showroom" car actually is.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I agree. Not many people are mechanically minded and a majority have never ever looked underneath their own car - ever! So whilst the exterior and topside looks inmmaculate, underneath it could be a rot box.

My cousin's Cosworth (under retoratation) is a good example of this; To look at it could be considered as a concours car. Engine bay, interior, and bodywork more or less all spot on. Underneath though its a different story; Rusty chassis rails, rusty seams behinds the bumpers, rusty sills behind the side skirts. Whilst its by no means terminal, if nobody looked under the car or removed the side skirts, they'd be totally unware of its condition underneath.

(of course this doesn't let the person who inspected off the hook; they should have at the very least advised on any rust bubbles. Expected or not.)

markGT

Funnily enough I paid the *** to have a look under the car. Part of the inspection was a full chassis inspection for corrosion, when presented with the evidence they said that it wasnt there when they inspected the car. I'm sure you'll agree this isn't 3.4 weeks worth of rust. As for the owner, it is against the law to misrepresent the car which he did, for legal reasons I can't post the car description and what he said about it. I've spoken to the powers that be and the law states that it is the seller duty to make sure that the claims they make about a product are correct. An excuse of I didnt have a look under the car just doesn't wash I'm afraid. Its easy to see under a scoob its not like its a Lotus Exige or something. As I said earlier the paint calipers and the disk guards on the hubs, the rust has actually been painted over, draw your own conclusions.

The point though is can rust like that appear in two weeks; short answer no. I've just got back from the garage after paying a guy to come and look at the car, both above and below. His conclusions were anything from 6 months to a year for the rust on the bodywork. As for the chassis he believes that the car has stood in lots of salt water for a long time however its hard to prove that that has been the case but taking in account the mileage, the amount of rust didn't add up from day to day driving. He said even if it was stood in salty water that it would take a minimum of one year for the rust to become that bad. So there you go straight from an expert, I've got another one coming to see the car on Thursday so I have plenty of evidence backed up by qualified people.

Stay tuned!

tjmatt

iTrader: (1)

Any updates? looks much worse around the struts/hubs than my 110k miler. The bubbles under the paint look normal, but agreed to the "looks like its been standing in a foot of water". In fact I just replaced my original rear struts and there was no rust around the bottom bolts. And the capliers & drivehsafts etc don't look anything like those.

Brun

Watching with interest

jonny_693

iTrader: (5)

Rusty? Yes! I would hardly call it undriveable though. You should try owning a 13 year old french car. All of that is treatable IMO. Big thumbs down to the *** though, that rust has been there much longer than 4 weeks.