Never mind our EU contributions ....
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From: riding the crest of a wave ...
Never mind our EU contributions ....
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Yes.I agree with that.
Now let's see,Romans,Vikings,Angles,medieval Lords of the Manor,Industrial Revolution factory owners & mine owners................Oh! and the Normans.
we're in for a fortune.
Now let's see,Romans,Vikings,Angles,medieval Lords of the Manor,Industrial Revolution factory owners & mine owners................Oh! and the Normans.
we're in for a fortune.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34398014
Last edited by andy97; Sep 30, 2015 at 07:40 AM.
Well, somewhat unsurprisingly, I think it's a valid point. These people's ancestors were forcefully removed from their homeland and enslaved by the British and other Europeans whom then proceeded to amass large fortunes from their labour, to the point that their legacy still exists to this day, so why shouldn't the descendants of the slaves at least be able to enjoy some of the basic things people in Britain take for granted, such as basic sanitation.
All well and good folks sitting at home in the UK thinking this is ridiculous, but there's no escaping the fact that a considerable amount of modern Britain was built off the back of the slave trade, and what did these people get from that huge wealth, a simple "OK you're free now, off you go" while the likes of Dave Cameron got a family fortune out of it to the point of him rising to become the prime minister of of Great Britain.
It's all relative.
All well and good folks sitting at home in the UK thinking this is ridiculous, but there's no escaping the fact that a considerable amount of modern Britain was built off the back of the slave trade, and what did these people get from that huge wealth, a simple "OK you're free now, off you go" while the likes of Dave Cameron got a family fortune out of it to the point of him rising to become the prime minister of of Great Britain.
It's all relative.
Well, somewhat unsurprisingly, I think it's a valid point. These people's ancestors were forcefully removed from their homeland and enslaved by the British and other Europeans whom then proceeded to amass large fortunes from their labour, to the point that their legacy still exists to this day, so why shouldn't the descendants of the slaves at least be able to enjoy some of the basic things people in Britain take for granted, such as basic sanitation.
All well and good folks sitting at home in the UK thinking this is ridiculous, but there's no escaping the fact that a considerable amount of modern Britain was built off the back of the slave trade, and what did these people get from that huge wealth, a simple "OK you're free now, off you go" while the likes of Dave Cameron got a family fortune out of it to the point of him rising to become the prime minister of of Great Britain.
It's all relative.
All well and good folks sitting at home in the UK thinking this is ridiculous, but there's no escaping the fact that a considerable amount of modern Britain was built off the back of the slave trade, and what did these people get from that huge wealth, a simple "OK you're free now, off you go" while the likes of Dave Cameron got a family fortune out of it to the point of him rising to become the prime minister of of Great Britain.
It's all relative.
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Well, somewhat unsurprisingly, I think it's a valid point. These people's ancestors were forcefully removed from their homeland and enslaved by the British and other Europeans whom then proceeded to amass large fortunes from their labour, to the point that their legacy still exists to this day, so why shouldn't the descendants of the slaves at least be able to enjoy some of the basic things people in Britain take for granted, such as basic sanitation.
All well and good folks sitting at home in the UK thinking this is ridiculous, but there's no escaping the fact that a considerable amount of modern Britain was built off the back of the slave trade, and what did these people get from that huge wealth, a simple "OK you're free now, off you go" while the likes of Dave Cameron in fact it was the slave owners (black or white) who were compensated - to the tune of billions in todays moneygot a family fortune out of it to the point of him rising to become the prime minister of of Great Britain.
It's all relative.
All well and good folks sitting at home in the UK thinking this is ridiculous, but there's no escaping the fact that a considerable amount of modern Britain was built off the back of the slave trade, and what did these people get from that huge wealth, a simple "OK you're free now, off you go" while the likes of Dave Cameron in fact it was the slave owners (black or white) who were compensated - to the tune of billions in todays moneygot a family fortune out of it to the point of him rising to become the prime minister of of Great Britain.
It's all relative.
presumably from the good old "tax payer"
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...n-8508358.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/cele...as-banned.html
a state bailout for a bankrupt industry - sound familiar
Last edited by hodgy0_2; Sep 30, 2015 at 08:23 AM.
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in fact it was the slave owners (black and white) that received compensation
presumably from the good old "tax payer"
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...n-8508358.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/cele...as-banned.html
a state bailout for a bankrupt industry - sound familiar
presumably from the good old "tax payer"
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...n-8508358.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/cele...as-banned.html
a state bailout for a bankrupt industry - sound familiar
Not personally, but I do know an awful lot of Jamaicans still living in wooden huts with with corrugated zinc roofs no toilet or running water and not much in the way of an education and no shoes on their feet. 
Nothing much has changed for them since they were abandoned on a island in the caribbean, where as their former "owners" ancestors have gone on to do quite nicely by all accounts.
Nothing much has changed for them since they were abandoned on a island in the caribbean, where as their former "owners" ancestors have gone on to do quite nicely by all accounts.
Two points ditchy:
1. In many, many cases, no white man went and "captured" slaves, they had neither the time, nor the resources. Most were sold into slavery by their own, or other tribes who did go out and capture them.
2. Three years ago, on Barbados, I spoke to quite a few Barbadians, and each time, asked them, "How do you feel about the fact that your ancestors may have been slaves?"
To a man and a woman, each gave the same answer....."It's not good that they were slaves, but their sacrifice has helped me: I'd rather live here than in Africa....!"
So...depends on your perspective.
1. In many, many cases, no white man went and "captured" slaves, they had neither the time, nor the resources. Most were sold into slavery by their own, or other tribes who did go out and capture them.
2. Three years ago, on Barbados, I spoke to quite a few Barbadians, and each time, asked them, "How do you feel about the fact that your ancestors may have been slaves?"
To a man and a woman, each gave the same answer....."It's not good that they were slaves, but their sacrifice has helped me: I'd rather live here than in Africa....!"
So...depends on your perspective.
Two points ditchy:
1. In many, many cases, no white man went and "captured" slaves, they had neither the time, nor the resources. Most were sold into slavery by their own, or other tribes who did go out and capture them.
2. Three years ago, on Barbados, I spoke to quite a few Barbadians, and each time, asked them, "How do you feel about the fact that your ancestors may have been slaves?"
To a man and a woman, each gave the same answer....."It's not good that they were slaves, but their sacrifice has helped me: I'd rather live here than in Africa....!"
So...depends on your perspective.
1. In many, many cases, no white man went and "captured" slaves, they had neither the time, nor the resources. Most were sold into slavery by their own, or other tribes who did go out and capture them.
2. Three years ago, on Barbados, I spoke to quite a few Barbadians, and each time, asked them, "How do you feel about the fact that your ancestors may have been slaves?"
To a man and a woman, each gave the same answer....."It's not good that they were slaves, but their sacrifice has helped me: I'd rather live here than in Africa....!"
So...depends on your perspective.
Asking someone if they'd rather be poor in Africa or Barbados isn't much of a choice, especially considering they only have experience of Barbados, their perspective is always going to be one sided. I suspect if you loaded the question slightly differently and asked would they rater be rich in Africa or poor in Barbados, they'd have all answered Africa.
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That's a bit chicken and egg though, to single one group out as being responsible isn't really a true reflection of events.
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We did it with guns
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/0...ple-as-slaves/
Made an industry out of it
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/0...ple-as-slaves/
Made an industry out of it
Last edited by dpb; Sep 30, 2015 at 10:38 AM.
Asking someone if they'd rather be poor in Africa or Barbados isn't much of a choice, especially considering they only have experience of Barbados, their perspective is always going to be one sided. I suspect if you loaded the question slightly differently and asked would they rater be rich in Africa or poor in Barbados, they'd have all answered Africa.
I reckon most would vote to stay in Barbados.
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Doesn't work. For a start they don't see themselves as poor, they love the place, (and what's not to love), they have jobs, decent climate, homes, no tribal warfare, no corrupt governments, no white interference, plus they have their cricket!.
I reckon most would vote to stay in Barbados.
I reckon most would vote to stay in Barbados.
Doesn't work. For a start they don't see themselves as poor, they love the place, (and what's not to love), they have jobs, decent climate, homes, no tribal warfare, no corrupt governments, no white interference, plus they have their cricket!.
I reckon most would vote to stay in Barbados.
I reckon most would vote to stay in Barbados.
I don't have any experience of Barbados, so I can't really comment on their way of life.
I do however have extensive knowledge of Jamaica, having spent a considerable amount of time there due to the fact that my father was from there, I have lived there as a local and even went to school there for a short while, travelled the whole island, speak the language fluently because of the time I spent there as a child and the fact that my dad never sold out and always spoke patwa, I have seen the side no tourist would ever be able to, and it ain't pretty, it's also why they strongly advise tourists to stay inside the resorts or at least very close to them, and when they do go out, they do so with known taxi drivers / guides or organised trips.
As a distant ancestor of noblemen dispossessed during the French Revolution, I will be petioning the current (and illegitimate!) government of France for restitution of the family's feudal lands and holdings, which had been in our possession for centuries. I will also be demanding compensation for the barbarous execution of my forefathers at the hands of the revolutionary mob.
Could save me a fortune on buying a holiday home in the Languedoc, so got to be worth a punt
Could save me a fortune on buying a holiday home in the Languedoc, so got to be worth a punt
I would agree with some of the comments above if those involved were still suffering in poverty, but the fact is none of you are, also we are all still enjoying some of the benefits of the victorian era, however the reverse is true for the vast majority of the ancestors of slaves in Jamaica, you only have to look at how the people are living in the link to get some idea of the conditions there, and that's by no means the worst of it.
As shown in this thread it's the old, I'm alright jack mentality, that was then this is now, but the fact is people are still suffering as a result of our fore fathers actions, however dislocated some would like us all to be from that reality, I'll say it again, it's all relative.
As shown in this thread it's the old, I'm alright jack mentality, that was then this is now, but the fact is people are still suffering as a result of our fore fathers actions, however dislocated some would like us all to be from that reality, I'll say it again, it's all relative.
I would agree with some of the comments above if those involved were still suffering in poverty, but the fact is none of you are, also we are all still enjoying some of the benefits of the victorian era, however the reverse is true for the vast majority of the ancestors of slaves in Jamaica, you only have to look at how the people are living in the link to get some idea of the conditions there, and that's by no means the worst of it.
As shown in this thread it's the old, I'm alright jack mentality, that was then this is now, but the fact is people are still suffering as a result of our fore fathers actions, however dislocated some would like us all to be from that reality, I'll say it again, it's all relative.
As shown in this thread it's the old, I'm alright jack mentality, that was then this is now, but the fact is people are still suffering as a result of our fore fathers actions, however dislocated some would like us all to be from that reality, I'll say it again, it's all relative.
Sometimes it's all too easy to confuse cynicism with basic common sense and realism.
So? Millions upon millions of people have been killed in wars or through neglect of various sorts all across the world in the centuries since these things took place. Are you going to spend the rest of eternity trying to determine who was to blame for each of their deaths too, and go chasing their nearest living relatives for compensation now, god knows how many generations later? Or even more absurd, since this is what's really being suggested here, chase the governments of the countries their descendants happen to live in now for that compensation, even though their forefathers in many or most cases weren't even acting in the name of the state at the time? Terrible things have happened throughout human history, the true definition of a numpty is someone who thinks they can or should all be put right, no matter how much time has elapsed since.