Notices

Is the standard bhp rating at the wheels or flywheel?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 04 March 2009, 04:18 PM
  #1  
johnlogie
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
johnlogie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 1,089
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Question Is the standard bhp rating at the wheels or flywheel?

As above.


Cheers
Old 04 March 2009, 04:25 PM
  #2  
BLACK V5
Scooby Regular
 
BLACK V5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Bath
Posts: 1,106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

All Car makers quote flywheel bhp as far as i know.
Old 04 March 2009, 04:32 PM
  #3  
johnlogie
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
johnlogie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 1,089
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Does that mean that my classic my99 uk turbo is 218bhp at the fly wheel as standard?
its now got sti injectors, vf28 turbo, full de-cat and a kn57i now. Had it on the roller and it got 299.9bhp at the flywheel. so not a bad increase then?
Old 04 March 2009, 04:39 PM
  #4  
New_scooby_04
Moderator
iTrader: (4)
 
New_scooby_04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The Terry Crews of moderation. P P P P P P POWER!!
Posts: 18,687
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Yes, and that sounds about right for a VF28 conversion with supporting mods.

Don't get too caught up with bhp figures derived from RRs though; it's minefield!

What matters is how the car performs on the road.

Ns04
Old 04 March 2009, 04:43 PM
  #5  
BLACK V5
Scooby Regular
 
BLACK V5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Bath
Posts: 1,106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

My99 was 215 bhp at the flywheel standard. Although that was a bit conservative, as a lot of cars have been known to make 220-230 standard.
Old 04 March 2009, 04:47 PM
  #6  
joz8968
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (13)
 
joz8968's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Leicester
Posts: 23,761
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by johnlogie
Does that mean that my classic my99 uk turbo is 218bhp at the fly wheel as standard?...
Originally Posted by BLACK V5
My99 was 215 bhp at the flywheel standard...

Official UKDM Turbo 2000 AWD figures (at FLYWHEEL):-

MY94-96 - 211PS (208bhp); 201lb ft
MY97/98 - 211PS (208bhp); 214lb ft
MY99/00 - 218PS (215bhp); 214lb ft

Last edited by joz8968; 04 March 2009 at 04:49 PM.
Old 04 March 2009, 04:49 PM
  #7  
johnlogie
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
johnlogie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 1,089
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

I always thought the car went well, just thought that was a good result even though rr figures aren't always 100%.



Also it was supposed to get an ecutek remap but the mapper couldn't talk to the ecu so he thinks its got an older ecu. Dont know if it came out the factory like that or if a previous owner had changed it?
Anyway the mapper checked every thing over and said it was running fine(afr , timing etc) apart from the boost. Doesnt reach full boost till 7000rpm. He suggested getting a manual boost controller and he would set it up on the rr.

Last edited by johnlogie; 04 March 2009 at 04:54 PM.
Old 04 March 2009, 05:00 PM
  #8  
joey_turbo
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (26)
 
joey_turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Essex
Posts: 6,547
Received 9 Likes on 6 Posts
Default

Wouldn't your rolling road figure be an ATW (At The Wheels figure), or is it one of them places that convert it back using the transmission losses as a multiplier?
Old 04 March 2009, 05:05 PM
  #9  
New_scooby_04
Moderator
iTrader: (4)
 
New_scooby_04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The Terry Crews of moderation. P P P P P P POWER!!
Posts: 18,687
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by johnlogie
I always thought the car went well, just thought that was a good result even though rr figures aren't always 100%.



Also it was supposed to get an ecutek remap but the mapper couldn't talk to the ecu so he thinks its got an older ecu. Dont know if it came out the factory like that or if a previous owner had changed it?
Anyway the mapper checked every thing over and said it was running fine(afr , timing etc) apart from the boost. Doesnt reach full boost till 7000rpm. He suggested getting a manual boost controller and he would set it up on the rr.
Something doesn't sound right there mate: if it's an MY99 car it WILL have an mappable ECU via Ecutek. I'd be very surprised if you were putting out a genuine 299 at the fly on those mods without a remap!

Are you sure you have an MY99/00? ]

I have one of the best digital boost controllers and displays for sale at the mo: an Apexi AVC-R, but I would NOT suggest you get that (or any others boost controller) on a car where the fueling and ignition parameters cannot be set up properly to reflect any boost increase within the ECU!
Old 04 March 2009, 05:28 PM
  #10  
johnlogie
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
johnlogie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 1,089
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by New_scooby_04
Something doesn't sound right there mate: if it's an MY99 car it WILL have an mappable ECU via Ecutek. I'd be very surprised if you were putting out a genuine 299 at the fly on those mods without a remap!

Are you sure you have an MY99/00? ]

I have one of the best digital boost controllers and displays for sale at the mo: an Apexi AVC-R, but I would NOT suggest you get that (or any others boost controller) on a car where the fueling and ignition parameters cannot be set up properly to reflect any boost increase within the ECU!
The cars a T reg and the print out says 299.9bhp at the flywheel and 234bhp at the wheels
Old 04 March 2009, 06:26 PM
  #11  
johnlogie
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
johnlogie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 1,089
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Old 04 March 2009, 06:59 PM
  #12  
joz8968
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (13)
 
joz8968's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Leicester
Posts: 23,761
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by johnlogie
The cars a T reg and the print out says 299.9bhp at the flywheel and 234bhp at the wheels
That's a 22% drivetrain loss, which is bang on what one would expect.

As Ns04 said, IF a MY99/00, you should have an OBDII port under the steering wheel fascia. This is a portal to the ECU and can be reflashed with EcuTek software i.e. a remap.

What's the 7-digit 'Model code' read on the VIN plate?

Last edited by joz8968; 04 March 2009 at 07:03 PM.
Old 04 March 2009, 08:18 PM
  #13  
johnlogie
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
johnlogie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 1,089
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by joz8968
That's a 22% drivetrain loss, which is bang on what one would expect.

As Ns04 said, IF a MY99/00, you should have an OBDII port under the steering wheel fascia. This is a portal to the ECU and can be reflashed with EcuTek software i.e. a remap.

What's the 7-digit 'Model code' read on the VIN plate?



GC8GK8D
Old 04 March 2009, 08:50 PM
  #14  
joz8968
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (13)
 
joz8968's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Leicester
Posts: 23,761
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by johnlogie
GC8GK8D
Cool. the 2nd G means you've got a MY00 the last of the Classic MYs - a year younger than what you posted! (Sep 99 to Aug 00).

So you defo have the OBDII socket on the lower fascia underneath the steering wheel - go and check...

Last edited by joz8968; 04 March 2009 at 08:52 PM.
Old 04 March 2009, 11:24 PM
  #15  
johnlogie
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
johnlogie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 1,089
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Question

Sorry should have said. The mapper plugged into the socket but could only get diagnostic, but could not write to ecu and his thinkin was it might have an older ecu. Due to time(on my part) there wasnt time to check etc. But he did say all the readings look good and the engine was running well and strong(apart from the boost problem). where do i go from here??
Old 04 March 2009, 11:31 PM
  #16  
pat
Scooby Regular
 
pat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 679
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Was the mapper using EcuTek tools ? The car should be on an AE802 ECU which is mappable... but only via EcuTek.
Old 04 March 2009, 11:48 PM
  #17  
johnlogie
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
johnlogie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 1,089
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by pat
Was the mapper using EcuTek tools ? The car should be on an AE802 ECU which is mappable... but only via EcuTek.

yes he was usin the rite tools etc etc, i went with a mate who builds scooby's , evo's skylines's and always uses this guy, which is y i went.It just wouldn't write/work or wotever its ment to do(sorry i dont really know about the technical side so i dont know how its ment to work).
Old 04 March 2009, 11:52 PM
  #18  
New_scooby_04
Moderator
iTrader: (4)
 
New_scooby_04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The Terry Crews of moderation. P P P P P P POWER!!
Posts: 18,687
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

John, I sincerely suggest you speak to a licensed ECUTEK mapper. Something doesn't sound right about this at all.

Bob Rawle
AndyF
Jolly Green Monster
Pat Hereborne
Richard Bulmer
Allan Jefferies

To name but a few!
Old 04 March 2009, 11:57 PM
  #19  
johnlogie
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
johnlogie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 1,089
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by New_scooby_04
John, I sincerely suggest you speak to a licensed ECUTEK mapper. Something doesn't sound right about this at all.

Bob Rawle
AndyF
Jolly Green Monster
Pat Hereborne
Richard Bulmer
Allan Jefferies

To name but a few!
Mate I get where ur comin from but my mate does have a garage that only deals with high performance jap cars and the mapper has been workinn with him for the past 5 years and is a licenced ecutek mapper. and they have a good portfolio.



I think that when i get a chance tomorro i'll get to the ecu and have a good look, and take a pic. thats probably the best place to start

Last edited by johnlogie; 05 March 2009 at 12:01 AM.
Old 05 March 2009, 01:46 AM
  #20  
pat
Scooby Regular
 
pat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 679
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

John,

if it is one of the licensed ECUTEK dealers up in Scotland then fair play, it could be a flash programming voltage problem, the SelectMonitor data connection seems to be working if the laptop can read fault codes. If not, then it won't be possible to reprogram the ECU. The reason for the skepticism is that there are only two ECUTEK dealers in Scotland who have the necessary tools.... Andy Forrest and Wallace Performance.

Cheers,

Pat.
Old 05 March 2009, 07:30 AM
  #21  
johnlogie
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
johnlogie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 1,089
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by pat
John,

if it is one of the licensed ECUTEK dealers up in Scotland then fair play, it could be a flash programming voltage problem, the SelectMonitor data connection seems to be working if the laptop can read fault codes. If not, then it won't be possible to reprogram the ECU. The reason for the skepticism is that there are only two ECUTEK dealers in Scotland who have the necessary tools.... Andy Forrest and Wallace Performance.

Cheers,

Pat.
Yes mate it was Russel from wallace performance, who is a very experienced mapper and overall top man
Old 05 March 2009, 08:26 AM
  #22  
New_scooby_04
Moderator
iTrader: (4)
 
New_scooby_04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The Terry Crews of moderation. P P P P P P POWER!!
Posts: 18,687
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by johnlogie
Yes mate it was Russel from wallace performance, who is a very experienced mapper and overall top man
Ah, ok, presumably there is some kind of technical problem as Pat says then.
Old 06 March 2009, 12:01 AM
  #23  
johnlogie
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
johnlogie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 1,089
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by pat
Was the mapper using EcuTek tools ? The car should be on an AE802 ECU which is mappable... but only via EcuTek.


Checked ecu 2day its AE801
Old 06 March 2009, 12:27 AM
  #24  
pat
Scooby Regular
 
pat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 679
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

If it's AE801 then it is mappable AE802 was the last ROM revision of the classic UK Impreza, and with it being a late classic I thought it would be on one, but perhaps it is not quite THAT late, or someone replaced an AE802 with an AE801 previously, the AE801 ROM's boost control was a little different, and some people preferred that At any rate if Russel can't program it then it sounds like a problem with the programming voltage or a wiring issue on the car.
Old 06 March 2009, 07:23 AM
  #25  
johnlogie
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
johnlogie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 1,089
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Cheers for the info Pat. I'll have a word with Russel over the next week or so.
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Scott@ScoobySpares
Full Cars Breaking For Spares
61
11 January 2021 03:08 PM
Scott@ScoobySpares
Full Cars Breaking For Spares
7
14 December 2015 08:16 AM
blockhead
Subaru Parts
19
07 November 2015 11:50 PM
Mattybr5@MB Developments
Full Cars Breaking For Spares
20
22 October 2015 06:12 AM



Quick Reply: Is the standard bhp rating at the wheels or flywheel?



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:59 AM.