Boro

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys, its been a while since we had a scoob, but yesterday we bought a 51 plate WRX with PPP (no certificate?). Pretty much standard.

Anyway, i have a few questions im hoping you guys can answer.

First off, is the best way to tell if PPP was actually fitted by ringning Prodrive with the chassis number or is there a simpler way i can check visually?

What bhp should a bugeye WRX PPP be running (looking to be dyno'd soon) before we start modding?

It hasnt been serviced for a few 1000 miles, so thats first on the list, what plugs/oil would you recommend?

After looking at other posts, removal of VTA dump valve is high on the list but whats involved and how is it achieved?

Also, thinking of a Harveys decat uppipe, any better/other options available?

Does the PPP include a different map or ecu? Can i have a better map without having to buy a new ecu?

Sorry for the amount of questions, last one...

It has some kind of cone filter, but again, from reading other topics, is a K&n panel filter still the best option?

Basically, i would like to increase low down performance and replace/remove the crap parts with decent bits.

Any other suggestions/advice most welcome

Thanks in advance

Butty

iTrader: (2)

Sounds like a PPP with extra mods. This was 240 hp on the bugeye.

You should have a remapped ECU, back box with Prodrive etched on the pipe, blue Samco hose from turbo to intercooler and part of the downpipe will be decatted (not obvious to spot).
The ECU box may have a Prodrive sticker on it, or more than likely just some marker pen code on the case.

If the ECU hasn't been mapped for the cone filter then the air flow meter response could be quite a bit out. This can be spotted on the dyno with some data logging carried out at the same time.
Swap back to a standard Subaru recirc dump valve. This will need the return put back to the inlet tube, which should have a plug in it (just before turbo).

I'd do the up-pipe in combination with a sports cat/decat (e.g. Prodrive sports cat). The standard STi up-pipe (2nd hand one from breakers) will be fine as a cheaper option to aftermarket ones.

Keep to normal oil and plugs.

Nick

Steve_PPP

iTrader: (3)

Probably the best way to prove for sure. This a Subaru dealer should be able to tell you as well.

Between 245-250bhp for a standard bug WRX PPP. I know Prodrive say 265bhp, but thats tosh and they never make that number according to my local rolling road specialist If yours makes more than that, then start hunting for other changes/upgrades made by the previous owner

Plugs - NGK PFR7B's
Oil - much debate over whats best, search for "engine oil" on this board and have a read!

It'll help but is quite a big job to change. The WRX has a cat in the uppipe with a sensor that'll throw a CEL if you don't use the resistor trick (search for something like EGT uppipe resistor and you'll find details on here).

Its basically a Prodrive conservative map. The bugs actually had a daughterboard piggy-backed onto the ECU i think, whereas '03 onwards Prodrive applied an EcuTek map i think. You can remap your current ECU, but you'll have to fork out for an EcuTek licence as well as the mapping itself.

Hope that lot helps

Boro

iTrader: (1)

Cheers guys, thats been a great help. Its defo got the blue prodrive intercooler pipe, so hopefully its all gravy. Tried ringing Prodrive this morning, but lines were busy, will confirm for sure later.

Interestingly, i spoke to Alan @ enginetuner who's only an hour away from us and weve booked it in for a dyno run this afternoon, just to make sure there arent any other issues before we start modding it.

So, looks like the ball is already rolling

He reckons if its the right prodrive ecu (not sure it is) he can remap it with an ecutek map for £500 including vat and should see around 50bhp increase.

Thanks again for the info guys, anymore info always appreciated

Butty

iTrader: (2)

I've got a 755 ECU board from an 02 WRX going spare.
The Prodrive ECU would be worth a bob or two on Ebay or could be put back on whenever you sell the car.
It would be a shame to wipe over the PPP map.

Nick

Boro

iTrader: (1)

Well, interesting day. Having seen the benefit of the PPP map, id be surprised if it was worth anything at all. If i'd spent £2k on the PPP when this car was new i would have wanted a refund.

Martyn @ enginetuner reckons the bugeye PPP is a waste of time.

Anyone care to guess what our pretty much standard WRX PPP bugeye made on the rollers?

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Well it's bound to be 'bad' lol... I'll take a pop at not much more than the std 215 (or is it 225 ) bhp

Boro

iTrader: (1)

Spot on!

225.1 to be extact but i'll let you off with the .1 lol

PPP made no difference what-so-ever which apparantely is pretty normal

So, either we spend cash on a decat up-pipe, a decat downpipe and a remap, or sell it and go in search of an sti and add some cash.

Modded we can make the WRX 265bhp or go for a standard STi with the same power.

Question is, will we be happy with 265bhp? Will 40bhp really make that much difference or is it all about how the power is delivered once mapped?

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

I reckon you'll initially like 265bhp (compared to 225), but I'm sure you'll hanker after more very soon after, lol. Personally, if keeping the WRX, then I think 300+bhp is what you'll be happy with, cause of it's weight.

By all means I'd get the STi if you can easily do that, as its a better car in the suspension too, etc. Plus the STi kudos etc. Thing is aren't the std bugeye JDM STi's 265bhp anyway? But aren't the Type UK STi's SUV'd by Prodrive and have the PPP as a matter of course at 305bhp... In addition to the WRC style rear wing, plus front bumper & grille?

Boro

iTrader: (1)

Its more the low down pulling power that i really dont like, its almost like a NA car in first gear and only really gets going after 4k in 2nd. If the remap and mods sorted that little annoyance out, i think we could live with it.

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Oh yeah, you can easily get it up to 265 and beyond with suitable supporting mods, plus an ECU reflash via the OBDII.

Yeah, 225 isn't really 'enough' in a car of that weight (compared to a Classic) and, as you say, the early gears will feel relatively lethargic (especially bearing mind it is a turbo! ).

Boro

iTrader: (1)

Funny you should mention weight, we weighed it last night, 1400kg's +/- 20kgs.

Which at 225bhp is 160bhp/tonne. Not enough by a long way. 265bhp would take it to 189bhp/tonne.

powerwrx

iTrader: (11)

i have a non PPP 2001 plate wrx which was running 215bhp as standard when i bought it, since then ive changed to full turbo back decat and Ecutek remap, and the car is now running 270bhp.

definatly worth doing in my opinion. pulls better in every gear

Boro

iTrader: (1)

Really?

Whats it like in 1st and 2nd? Do you get that pushed back in the seat feeling?

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Yeah, 160bhp/tonne is in contemporary hot hatch territory! - you MUST move on! lol.

If your car is 1400kg then, ironically, the Japs' 'gentleman's agreement' of 276bhp (280PS) gets you to exactly 200bhp/tonne, which is about the same as a v.1/2 WRX

Boro

iTrader: (1)

I think i could live with that for the minute as ive had classic shaped scoobs and evo4's so know what 280bhp feels like, shame the WRX PPP isnt all i thought it would be.

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Are you sure your car is in good health, as I can't believe the PPP (fuel pump, full system and ECU) would give you only 0-10bhp? . Surely you'd get more like 20-25bhp (especially as Prodrive claim 265!!!)?

Boro

iTrader: (1)

Yeh, everything is as it should be. The guys down at enginetuner know there scoobys inside out and its pretty much exactly what they said it would be, even before running it. Seems PPP on this particular model, isnt as good as '05 onwards, where prodrive claimed figures are actually accurate.

Alan Jeffery - Engine Tuner

Worth a look!

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Yes, I forgot you mentioned Alan earlier . That's it then , the PPP is not that great on the bugeye WRX . Buggoor, lol.

powerwrx

iTrader: (11)

you can feel the difference definatly, but i wouldnt say you get that push back feeling that you get from a classic,due to the weight difference i would have thought.

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Yeah, the weight will defo be the factor for the blunting of the feeling of acceleration. It's a modern day curse, unfortunately, lol.

FTR, for every gain of 5kg, it requires another 1 bhp to keep the power/weight the same.

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

The standard power for the UK WRX bugeye was 215bhp.

When I bought mine (a 2001 model) it had about 54,000 on the clock, and when I initially had it rolling roaded, it showed 209bhp.

Stuck a green panel filter in the airbox, and a catback miltek exhaust and it made 248(.6 )bhp. The remap also made the car drive completely differently - more power lower down the rev range and got rid of a flat spot I'd been getting annoyed by.

I can't honestly believe that the PPP would only have a 10bhp difference unless some of the parts are completely fooked.

BTW to some people who have chatted about it on here and at Bulldog in Twyford, the PPP for the WRX is somewhat different to the STI version.

From what I understand, the PPP for the WRX only consists of changing the exhaust from the cat back, replaces a hose on the intercooler for a silicon version, and an ECU remap - no fuel pump, and it didn't include a sports cat like the STI one did either; not forgetting on top of that that the WRX has a cat in the up pipe too.

If you're crazy for power then you're probably better buying an STI - they're more affordable now but just remember if you go for a model registered after March 1st 2001, you'll be stung next year and even more the year after for car tax.

bigvern

iTrader: (1)

What was the torque figure? My bug made 223.6 bhp and 224 ft/lb with a panel filter and a Prodrive BB on Tesco 99. Are you running on SUL, V-Power or normal 95 ron fuel?

The other thing is how many runs did you have on the dyno, when mine was done it took 5 runs to get two within 1 bhp and the difference between the first and last was over 10 bhp, it was a flipping cold day though.

Like you say I would have expected more than 10 bhp from a £1600+ conversion however, you can get all the bits you mentioned from ebay to dress the car up to look like a PPP. I understand that the PPP for our car has an ecu piggyback rather than a re-map (a bit like a Unichip?).

Maybe the cone filter thing isn't doing you any favours? Do you have a boost gauge, if so what is it showing?

Boro

iTrader: (1)

We did think that the cone filter may have affected the map, i might ask the question in Scooby General about other peoples experiences of WRX PPP power for a bugeye.

enginetuner seemed to think it ran similar to other they had RR'd and that PPP made no significant increases, as like you said, its not a prodrive remap as such, more they just slam in a piggyback and hope for the best with varying degrees of gain.

We had 3 or 4 runs on the dyno, the first being 210bhp but Martyn thought it was losing boost and found a jubilee clip on the intercooler to be not as tight as he would have liked. Second run gave something like 221.? and the last being 225.1.

Yesterday was average temperature in Plymouth, not cold but certainly not hot enough to have affected the figures, although it did go on the rollers within 20mins of arriving after over an hours drive, so maybe the car was hot?

Steve_PPP

iTrader: (3)

i have to agree here that if you're only getting 10bhp from the PPP, then something is not right. Not going to start arguing against what Alan Jeffery has said, but still....

My completely standard Bugeye WRX PPP (nothing changed at all) made 250.1bhp on its 3rd run at Surrey Rolling Road. First two attempts were slightly lower in the 240's but thats normal. What boost were you hitting? Something just don't sound right there!

I assume you weren't running the car on 95ron unleaded!? We had a chap turn up the same day i was at the rollers with a blob STI PPP (Prodrive say 305bhp). He was running it on normal 95 ron fuel and it fell about 35bhp short of where it should have been.

Steve_PPP

iTrader: (3)

Wouldn't really say that, i've driven a WRX PPP bug and a non-PPP version of the same car (both 2002 models), both standard, and found the difference version noticable. Both in terms of the power available, and the way it delivers it

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

Couple of other things to think about:
1) Is the cone filter in the engine bay or in the wing? If it's in the engine bay and you're still running a TMIC it's probably drawing in too much hot air and reducing the potential performance. If all you have are PPP mods I'd remove the cone filter straight off and replace it with the standard airbox and a good aftermarket panel filter.

2) Does the rolling road have a scoop blower? Might make a difference (although unlikely to be a 30bhp difference )

3) and... do you have a intercooler water spray? Did you use it? One of the guys who runs a blog on his prodrive bug (he's aiming for 400bhp with a TMIC) found he was nearly 15bhp down on power before he sprayed water on the IC during a rolling road session...

fastfu

iTrader: (1)

i was reading something on the uk300 the other day and prodrive said that all their quoted power figures were from running super unleaded and that if normal unleaded was used the power would be significantly lower around the 225-235 mark

Boro

iTrader: (1)

Ahhh, you guys may well have hit the nail on the head. Having only had the car a couple of days, we are still using the petrol the car came with, so may well be regular unleaded. Long story but i would expect this to be the case.

Also, the cone filter is in the engine bay, bottom left as you look in, if that makes sense. At £70 a pop for a run on the rollers, im reluctant to take it back for another run having just changed the fuel.

I think i'll probably get the cone filter out and replace as suggested with a panel filter, maybe k&n? Then get the car decatted and remapped with an ecutek map.

What kind of figures should this hit, given the following mods:-

Decat up-pipe
Decat downpipe
Ecutek remap
Panel filter

To answer the intercooler question, Alan/Martyn did use a blower on this and the frontend.

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Ah, then get some V-Power in and do a reset! (see below). Aftera few miles driving should hopefully notice - to a lesser or greater degree - a difference (the ECU should give you more ign.advance/boost).

Also, when that first tank of V-power is used, fill up again and do another reset - this tankfull will not have any 95 RON diluting it, so you'll be optimisng the ECU's IAM learning. To make the ECU learn properly, do a some varied mixed driving. The ECU will arrive at an optimum ign. advance/boost setting (which will be greater than that for 95).


New Age (Denso) ECU Reset

The Denso ECU’s don’t have a manual reset function like the JECS ones. The Denso units apparently have a non-volatile RAM, so even disconnecting the battery won’t do it. The only way to reset these ECUs is via the OBDII diagnostics port using a computer. Until recently this has only possible at the main dealer or using other commercial solutions e.g. Delta Dash or SECS.
What follows is a description of resetting your Newage ECU using ecuExplorer which, at the time of writing, is distributed free by TARI Racing. This software is described in more detail in the ECU diagnostics and data logging technical article.

1. Download and install the latest release of ecuExplorer
2. Connect up to the OBDII diagnostics port with reference to the connecting to your ECU technical article.
3. Turn on your ignition
4. Invoke ecuExplorer and select the Tools → Reset ECU option as illustrated in the figure below.
5. To complete the reset, turn your ignition off, back on, then start your car.