j16jrf

iTrader: (3)

Hi,

I have a 20g on the car and wondering what sort of lag other people are getting.

The car is mapped to 1.5 bar. It shows 1 bar at about 3k then wont show 1.5 until close to 5000 rpm sometime slightly over.

Is this normal or is there any way of improving spool up?

I have stainless headers and uppipe, bell mouthed decat forged internals etc.

just wanting to know if thats normal or slightly more laggy than normal?


Thanks
Jamie

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Did you resolve your other issues?
My own TD05-06 20G does 1 bar in 4th at around 3,160 rpm and can be at 1.7 bar 3 or 400 rpm later.
Ported headers and matched up-pipe.

j16jrf

iTrader: (3)

yes Harvey resolved the other issue, seems to have been nothing just the battery disconnected and had to "learn" again maybe.

Could my manifold be the problem to this? if i go for your manifold and uppipe i should see the same spool times as you as it is one of your turbos

mshill

iTrader: (4)

According to my AVCR i am hitting 1.5 bar of boost at 3600 / 3700, thats in
5th gear.
AFP 20g, 3" afterburner decat system, gruppe s headers & up pipe, inner wing k&n induction kone
2003 newage sti
mark

harvey

iTrader: (48)

1 bar at 3k in 4th is good and 1.5 bar should be there by 3,500 rpm, not any later.
Spool in 5th should always be better than spool in 4th as you have more load on the engine in the higher gear.
I don't know what headers you have or the rest of your spec so I do not know the cause of your late spool beyond 1 bar. It could be one or several of many things. It really needs a look under the bonnet.
Ported headers and matched up-pipe are generally a better proposition than tubular headers on the TD05-06 20 G and generally to around 420-450 bhp.

j16jrf

iTrader: (3)

spec is:
2.0 with forged pistons
ebay stainless headers no make with flexi uppipe not a bolt on one
hks induction kit
silicone turbo intake
autronic ecu
bell mouth decat down pipe
decat centre section and STI Genome back box
550cc injectors
sard FPR
autobahn FMIC
HKS EVC VI boost controller (which i looked at today and when floored says throttle is only 90%)?

have you any more ideas what this slow spool could be down to rather than the manifold? could it be the turbo as first thought?

scoobysmiff

iTrader: (2)

Jamie,

I beleive i have mentioned before that you can get quite a big pressure drop from the autobahn FMIC, look at getting a good quality Hybrid or something? i would also change the headers as well, i had a set of harveys headers on my car and the difference was immediatly noticable with regard to spool and how it rev'd accross the entire range, i would run a set of harveys headers and up pipe on a 2.0ltr pushing no more than 400 no problem.
Stu has my old headers now and he has stated that it has made a massive difference to his set up even running mostly std now for a while, it seems to be much quicker than before and rev's climb like never before.
My own MY99 had them on and it made a huge difference, deffo recomended mate, change them and your FMIC.

j16jrf

iTrader: (3)

more saving to do by the looks of it lol.
What did it boost like on yours Ian? when were you seeing boost and to what level?

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

Something is killing your spool as my 20g used to make full power at 3300rpm, I have a gt35r which now hits full boost at 4200rpm so yours should definately see full boost before mine

j16jrf

iTrader: (3)

yeah steve thats wot i cant understand. im trying to find out what would cause this spooling problem

Jam Performance

iTrader: (3)

Is it best to run ported o.e. headers and upipe or Aftermarket tublar headers on a 2.0 with 20g?

mark28

has its always been like this or is it something that has been getting worse ?

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

aftermarket headers are always best when it comes to power

j16jrf

iTrader: (3)

i dont know if its always been like this, it has been on a while now but only been running full boost recently as i had to wait to get the autronic ecu up and running on it.

what all can effect the turbo spooling up? would engine compression be something to check?

Ian

iTrader: (10)

have you got a exhaust leak at all? in the flexi maybe?

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

Your running autronics ecu ???? Hvae you not considered it could be a maping issue ???

harvey

iTrader: (48)

There is an underlying problem and it is unlikely to be the turbo. It is also unlkely that changing the headers will make a big enough difference to resolve the issue. Start looking for an air leak on the welds of your FMIC or the pipework from the turbo to the throttle body. Also look for air leaks at the joints on the headers and uppipe and at the collector on the headers particularly.

Not always the case and even when it is it can be very marginal. Spool on tubular headers is almost always much later.

mark28

could be a map problem but before you go doing that its worth cheaking for any boost being lost etc. cheak all intercooler pipes inlet manifold gaskets even a thottle body gasket and idle valve seal/gasket can cause loss of boost pressure.

cheak for exhaust gases being lost up to the turbo from the exhaust ports. you may not hear it blowing due to having a very loud system on the car. so just because you cant here dont mean its not blowing.

there is so many things to look at when a turbo/engine is not hitting a desired boost level but with a few simple cheaks you will half the list of things it could be.

mark

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

A so called associate ? has just got a car mapped on a 2ltr engine with an md321t turbo and "your" ported headers have limted his power !!! He could only make 420bhp but was told if he had "aftermarket" headers he would get about 440/450bhp there is a time and place for ported headers !!

j16jrf

iTrader: (3)

driving it tonight and there is also a miss now high up the rev range, so back to the mapper for that one.

I will get him to check for any exhaust leaks and see if we can find anything along with the intercooler pipework etc.

thanks for the help, this could be a hard one to find the cause of lol

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

Its nice to blame the mapper !!! but now your car is missing ???? You need to think if you have added any parts since the mapping took pace ???

j16jrf

iTrader: (3)

no parts added since the map just the HKS EVC VI and they fitted it

scoobysmiff

iTrader: (2)

I never ran it at boost mate, it was on for 30 miles while i was running it in and decided to go 2.5 cos i had the chance of a silly price engine

j16jrf

iTrader: (3)

think i will just have to start ruling things out lol.
try first checking for boost leaks anywhere and probably just go for a set of harveys headers and uppipe, good place to start i think

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Associate ? You are talking in riddles. Please explain.

So we know what you are talking about, what car and what mapper ?
My own WRX on one of my own 05-06 20gs runs 422 bhp on my own headers and uppipe. Tim Waterson's car with similar spec did 409 bhp. I can think of two others with similar spec, one at 418 I am told and the other, a New Age with a similar figure.

Was the person making the claim that power would increase from 420 to 440-450 bhp trying to sell a set of tubular headers?

Nobody has been in touch with me to say their car is restricted to 420 bhp or any other figure for that matter because of my ported headers. My advice generally is that certainly up to the top output of an 05-06 20g ported headers win hands down and I know this from the extensive testing I have done both at Steve Simpson's and Northallerton.
I would happily have made the offer below if I had received any complaint because I am not trying to sell things that are not the best choice for the application in question.

I have a set of brand new tubular headers and uppipe here and I am prepared to fit them FOC to the car limited to 420 bhp providing we run it over a rolling road immediately before and after the header swap. The person in question, whoever that may be, can then pay for the tubular headers (£335) if he wants them to stay on the car but fitting them will have been free.
I have already done tests on my own WRX Wagon (and others) and know the difference between ported headers with uppipe and tubular headers. From memory a top end difference of 2 bhp (on my own vehicle) in favour of the tubular at that level but the ported headers spooled streets ahead of the tubular and the car was much more responsive.

There is a 4WD rolling road at Northallerton so we can do the whole thing, same day and the "restricted" owner has a win win situation, unless of course he wants the ported headers back on which will cost £70. I will pick up the tab for the two rolling road runs so here is what we will achieve.
1. Verification that the car does have the claimed 420 bhp or similar with my ported headers and uppipe.
2. The power difference between my ported and GT Spec tubular 3 bolt flange.
3. Spool up rates can also be compared from the graphs provided.

This can all be done Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday of this week or we can make an appointment for some other date. Let me know when you want to do this and the results can be published on Scoobynet.
Seems to me like this could provide lots of useful information to Scoobynet members.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

j16jrf: Like I said at post #17, you have an underlying problem that needs fettling before you start looking at changing headers or anything else for that matter. Once your car is performing properly within the confines of whatever you already have fitted, you can then look at an overall plan to improve what you already have.

j16jrf

iTrader: (3)

its just finding the underlying problem Harvey.
So i just start by looking for boost leaks?
also noticed on the HKS boost controller the rpm section isnt working and its only giving me 90% throttle. these may be factors in the problem.

j16jrf

iTrader: (3)

could it be anything to do with the wastegate and actuator?
the one on the turbo seems to be adjustable, would you know if it can be fettled with Harvey to make sure it is fully closed?

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Stevebt : Would you like to deal with the above post. The 321T as I understand it is capable of up to 490 bhp or so I am told. I would not recommend my ported headers for that output and you will see historically that I generally say the ported headers will be the best option for turbos up to and equivalent to a good TD05-06 20g. I have proven this on my 95 WRX at 420 bhp.
Your comments above :
infer my headers are responsible for a loss of 20 or 30 bhp and I just don't accept that but I would like to get to the bottom of it.
We can determine the facts and they can be openly published on here. I cannot remember advising anyone to go for ported headers beyond 440-450 bhp if ultimate power (as opposed to early torque) was their objective.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Jim : There is a possibility your wastegate is not remaining fully closed as boost increases, if it is not properly pre-tensioned. Normally I would set the wastegate pre-tension using a hand pump to adjust the actuator pressure but that is obviously not available to you.
Firstly you must determine that the wastegate actuator arm is adjustable. This is done with a turn buckle on the arm connecting the actuator to the penny valve lever on top of your turbo. If there is no turn buckle but the arm is threaded then you can adjust the length of the arm by screwing on or off, a few turns of the lug end which locates over the pin on the penny valve flap lever. The lug end is located with a circlip or split pin or both.
Obviously shorten the actuator rod to shut the penny valve or to increase tension.
Disconnect the lug end and put the penny valve lever to fully closed. Then adjust the length of the wastegate actuator rod so that only one quarter of the pin diameter on the penny valve lever shows. This means you now have to pull the rod out to the equivalent of three quarters of the diameter of the penny valve lever pin to slot it over the pin.
Your wastegate actuator is now tensioned.
See what results you get and let us know.
If you do not follow this, drop me an email and I will send you a sketch but a picture of your WG set up might be useful.