powerwrx

iTrader: (11)

are there any instant gains from fitting a fmic, is it worth it? is a remap required?

bugeye running at 270bhp

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

not at that power level.

Worth looking at if you're going over 300bhp.

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

If you add a fmic without any form of mapping you will instantly gain loads of lag,

frayz

iTrader: (7)

Stay with an STI topmount for up to 400bhp... there really is no need for a FMIC on anything less.

Badbird

you get to cut up your bumper and you gain some street cred.....

powerwrx

iTrader: (11)

just what i was hopeing

dunx

iTrader: (3)

My bug-eye STI wilted in the summer on a "fun run"... so I changed to an FMIC and had a re-map to 340 bhp. So no such problem in warm weather now, I hear some of the cheap FMIC kits are really good these days...

DunxC

P.S. It is possible to suffer lag, just use the gears properly....

Tidgy

ima big fan of front mounts and tbh the lag issue is a myth, except for one situation which unfortunatly your in, the TD04 turbo will struggle with filling the front mount.

if your gonna fit one then i'd save a bit more cash, and add a vf35 (£300 for a decent scond hand one), injectors (prob £250 ish) and fuel pump (£100ish) then map it.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

^^^what he said^^^

Ns04

T1000

As front mounted Intercoolers block the front of the radiator, does the car run hotter? Was just wondering

Tidgy

no mate, not an issue.

although runnign the bigegr turbo and injectors may warrent an uprated oil cooler to keep temps down

Casters450

As tidgy stated above - I have a 2003 WRX with a TD04 and it is a bit laggy.

But it did reduce my charge temp from 117 Deg down to 26 Deg!!!

Tidgy

feckin hell, thast a hell of a drop , 117 sounds stupidly high though :S

joekont

I fitted an FMIC to mine with a TD04 and the extra lag was noticeable but not horrendous. This was back in the 278bhp days.
The difference was basically, your foot hit the floor and then you got the surge instead of the surge coming just as your foot hit the floor.
And I did notice that even with a TD04, because of the cooler charge temps, the midrange seemed better and it pulled a little further in the rev range too.

lunar tick

iTrader: (2)

Unless a crisp throttle response is important to you; that's why Andy F runs a TMIC on his 475bhp Spec C

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

If a crisp throttle response is important to you, you'll be wanting a M3!

Or at least not a turbo car!

I think it definitely bugs people who've come from a NA car more. For the life of me I've not detected any detriment in throttle response relative to the TMIC. What I did notice was the way the turbo kicks in considerably stronger fashion.

Ns04

joekont

I've been looking for my dyno prints but can't find the first one.
The car went from 261bhp to 278bhp just with the addition of the FMIC.

I've got the 278bhp printout but can't for the life of me find the 261.


The throttle response is most definatley different to NA. But that is common on all turbo cars.
You could fit a supercharger. That'd be interesting.
I've always wanted a supercharger. Loving that whine!

harvey

iTrader: (48)

At the present time your WRX intercooler probably copes adequately and it does not warrant the expense of a front mount on the 2003 car unless you have aspirations to add more power but if you fit a front mount you must at the same time have a remap otherwise you are at risk because of the difference in air supply to the engine.

dunx

iTrader: (3)

Mine was mapped when fitted as the pipework for the FMIC means a new CAI is included in the kit ! This can mean the car could run lean.

IMHO

DunxC

Tidgy

i agree with NS04's responce on this, turbo cars arn't insta go im afraid. no way to get around lag, even antilag isn't perfect, you just have to drive the car slightly differently if it has a turbo, but going from top mount to front mount i don't think theres much in it

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

If the installation includes a CAIK You really MUST get the car mapped ASAP. The maf will need rescaling, without that you stand a good chance of nipping a piston.

Ns04

lunar tick

iTrader: (2)

True - but once spooled up I get virtually zero lag between gear changes using an MD321H and a TMIC. It's unerringly like a NA car to drive in that respect. Yes, I've probably sacrificed a few peak bhp to achieve a better throttle response, but I don't mind that as I've over 400bhp to play with as it is

Tidgy

mines the same mate, no lag running a front mount, vf34, autronics, induction kit, front mount and decat

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

TBH I found my response to be very good when I had the TMIC on, that's why I really had the knives out for the FMIC when it went on, but it just didn't feel any difference in terms of responsiveness. I think one does have to be careful not to be hoodwinked by the increased induction noise; it's very misleading, as the induction kit creates a right racket as the turbo spools up and you think, "nothing much is happening relative to that racket" This can create the subjective impression of a reduction in response. In actuality, the same thing was happening before, you just couldn't hear it with the TMIC. The big difference I found was in the way the turbo kicked in. TBH it was significantly better than with the TMIC.

I do wonder if the V8 intercooler allows the mappers to be as aggressive with the relevant parameters to achieve this "kick" as a good FMIC like the Hybrid? Would be interested to hear from tuners.

What the issue does highlight is the importance in supporting mods to the end result. I've been very careful to try and get the responsiveness as good as possible from the outset. e.g. Smallest turbo capable of meeting power requirements, ported headers, sticking with the 2.5 exhaust etc..

Ns04

lunar tick

iTrader: (2)

I think both you and Tidgy have misunderstood what I'm trying to say. I'm not talking about the difference in spool up between FMIC and TMIC because there really shoudn't be any. I'm talking about throttle response - specifically when you're right up there in the 6000rpm zone, and you momentarily come off throttle to change gear then go back on the power. With a FMIC, I found a very slight delay (this is caused by the air ahead ahead of the turbo being pressured up again) between pressing the throttle and the car surging forward again. With a TMIC, this slight delay is all but eliminated. TBH, this is why Subaru designed the engine with a TMIC - it's not as good for flat out power under hard sustained throttle (esp in classics) and it does suffer from heatsoak. If I were tracking my car regularly, would be tempted to switch to FMIC. But through the gears on an open road, it's just more responsive with the TMIC re-installed

Tidgy

i've not realy noticed that if im honest, its not very often in feathring at that rev range, tend to be at the point of changing gear pretty soon.

i find it responds well in feathering anything above 4k

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

No, I understand you're not talking about boost threshold mate. It's the delay in response to modulating the throttle pedal being referred to. Surely this is something that can be empirically examined with the software the mappers have by plotting throttle position against boost response etc..

You could even do it, in a much cruder way, with a recording of AVCR read outs? Has anyone collected any data pre and post FMIC installation?

Ns04

lunar tick

iTrader: (2)

Would be interesting to do that I guess. Maybe I'll mention it to Andy when I see him for a map tweak next month. Mind you, I know he's incredibly busy at the moment so I'll not hold my breath