Jimmya85

Have a Wrx RA with blown engine (crankshaft thru block after remap)

Im going to invest in a EJ257 shortblock. Im using the Wrx heads if its no damage to them.

My question is.

When I did the remap with my EJ20 engine and Td05 16 turbo and alot more mods, I had about 1 bar boost, around 3800, and then 1.24 bar boost to the redline. And about 332 Hp/430 Nm torque. (The Phase 2 440cc injectors was 99% here)

When I change to the 2.5 liters Sti block and 550cc injectors, what is going to happen? Is the TD05 16g going to suffer problems keeping boost on the new engine thru the rev (becouse its to small)?

If so, whats the best turbo that would fit direcly to the EJ257 engine, that brings most fun. Looking for around 340 bhp and nice torque/spoolup. And hoping the gearbox will last this year

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

16G probably a bit small, but may be a good idea if you want to maximise the chances of the gearbox lasting! You can get 330 out of a 2 litre with a 16G so 2.5 will have no problems getting to this level.

BTW 1bar at 3800 on a 16g is on the "lazy side"

20G would be a good choice I'd reckon, but don't fancy your gearbox's chances much!

Ns04

Henrik

iTrader: (5)

I personally think that will be fine The newage WRX is still on a td04 on the 2.5 and that's fine, so surely a td05-16g should be OK as well. At a guess, never having done anything similar, I would have thought you're gonna get a really nice and torquey engine, which wont produce absolute top numbers (due to the turbo size) but will spool low down.

I'm not entirely sure, but I think john felstead might be on a 16g on a 2.5 lump (but it might be a 2.0 also). Drop him a PM and see if he has any comments.

Jimmya85

Thank you guys for the great replie

Becouse you add 0.5 liters, would result in better torque. But the thing Im curious about is what the difference will be running 1.2-1.3 bar boost on the EJ257 engine, compared with the Ej20 engine.

Would the torque/spool up be the only things that is difference, or is the bhp going up also on same boost compared with the old engine?



The only bad thing is that its going to ruin my wallet, just before summer

I hope the td05 16g fill fit on the new engine though? Without modifications?

Henrik

iTrader: (5)

If your turbo can manage to hold the same boost on a 2.5 as it did on a 2.0, it should produce more power. The problem is that the turbo has to flow a lot more air to keep the boost pressure up on a 2.5 than on a 2.0 (or something to that effect).


I hear what you're saying about empty wallets... Holidays are so bloody expensive I'd rather spend some of it on an engine build, but I don't think the Mrs would agree

Jimmya85

Haha, I hope it will manage it.

There are some that running 1.4-1.5 bar boost and max out the Td05 16g, so it should be possible to run 1.2 bar boost on the Ej257

Yeah, I know. You dont have girlfriends for the low cost

AndrewC

If you're using a std gearbox then I'd recommend a flat 1bar, should be able to hold that from around 2500-6500 in the higher gears with little lag, resulting in a very quick car.

The turbo will make 1.3bar+ midrange but that's too much for a std box/clutch.

Jimmya85

Yeah, I know .
Its a reinforced Wrx Type RA box, with new Excedy Organic Clutch Stage 2.

I rather change Clutch like underwear, then the gearbox.

AL99

iTrader: (1)

1.1 bar at 7000 RPM is right on the limit for a TD05 16g on a 2.5 litre, its flowing near 520 CFM. Plus any mods to Exhaust and intake to free up the flow will only increase this value.

You could hit 1.3 bar at 3.5-4.5K rpm but bring the boost down at the top of the rev range.

20G will do 1.4/1.5 bar to redline depending on mods to intake and exhaust.

p.s these numbers are from calculations not experience !!!

someone may know better tho.

Jimmya85

Thank you very much, interested reading . Would be nice complement though with realtime experiance too.

Specs for you on the car:

2.5" exhaust all the way full decat
4" Backexhaust
FMIC
Spec S headers
Td05 16 g turbo
K/N induction kit with cold air intake
Forged Gearbox and Excedy Clutch
550 cc injectors
Forge Dumpvalve
Apexi Power FC with commander
Blitz Type R boostcontroller
Walbro 255 fuelpump

And soon (about 1 month or so) a EJ257 block

I hope its going to be a fast RA after this, and with great torque and driveability.

andy97

iTrader: (1)

I had a 20G on a 2.5 and it went like a bomb. 1 bar boost at 2700rpm and full boost on 3000rpm. Torque peaked at 3100rpm and flat lined to 5500rpm before tailing off.

Jimmya85

You guys that have done the Ej257 engine swap, or have friends that have done it.

How does the car feels with the new block. Do you only get more torque on bottom, compared to Ej20 characteristic, or does the strength add over all rev? With the remap I had with the EJ20, the car starting to jump off when you reach 4000 rpm. Is it same power with the other block, and with improved bottom end, or is it lacking on higher revs?

Have to do a new remap on the Apexi FC after swapping engine, just so you dont think Ill will drive without remap

andy97

iTrader: (1)

With the 2.5 there isnt a great bang of torque pinning in your seat, but more a wave of torque from lower in the rev range. I prefer this type of power delivery than all or nothing, off boost, on boost.

AndrewC

Agree with Andy's description for a smallish turbo, put a GT30 on it and you'll get the torque hit OK!

Andrew...

Henrik

iTrader: (5)

I think it will be sweet as a nut with that spec

As you already have the 16g, try it out with that and if it doesn't flow enough at higher revs, send it off to have it modified. Potentially you'll have to map the apexi twice, but on the other hand you might be happy and save the 550+vat modification cost of the 16g.

Would a 20g or bigger max out the injectors too, requiring a FPR or bigger injectors?

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

This is what I've been running for a while now, up until a month ago until I put a TD04 on it

A 16g on a 2.5 is just like a TD04 on a 2.0, that is it really runs out of puff and boost naturally tails off past 6k rpm.

Reason the Td04 is on it is because I sent the 16g away to be converted to a 20g, going on soon

You're going to have to be careful with the torque with a 2.5 and 16g - its right at the levels whre the gearbox could give up.

Also remember due to increased capacity you can get the same power for less boost, simplified rule is that 25% increase in capacity means same power at 25% less boost, so basically if you were at 1.2 bar with the 2.0 then you can run the 2.5 at 1.0 bar for the same, if not more power due to cooler charge etc.

Jimmya85

Thanks

Jay m A:
If I understood you right, does the 16g turbo add more torque then a bigger one in the middle rev? But is too small for generate high boost over 6000+ revs?

Thinking of the gearbox vs torque.

How many BHP and NM did your car run ont he td05 16g turbo?

--------------
Ok, maybe I just need to use around 1 bar, and get around 340 BHP and some great torque register

AL99

iTrader: (1)

worth noting, the same boost level at a lower rpm will yeild a higher torque value than at a higher rpm.

ie 1.2 bar @ 3000 rpm will give more llb/ft than 1.2 bar @6000 rpm.
Torque is (5252xBHP) / RPM

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

Well a 20g will make more torque than a 16g, so more change of breaking the box with the larger turbo.

But talking of torque at certain revs, I'm sure if I wanted to I could get the td04 to make more torque at 1800rpm than a 20g at 1800 rpm, but the 20g will break the box, just not at 1800rpm

HTH

VAL113R

I ran 1.6 bar on my 18g with a standard box (1993 wrx). 20,000 miles on and the box went. Weighed up the options and ended up putting a £400 standard box back in than pay £2k+ for a hybrid or ppg

Now the bottom end has gone, but the box is still going strong.

Jimmya85

What kind of Horsepowers/Torque did you get from your car Jay with TD05 16G turbo. Have any dyno sheet or something. Would be awsome to see yourPower Curve or results

bruce

iTrader: (5)

I run a TD05-16g on my 2.5 converted MY97WRX.

Specs are --

Gruppe-s headers
3" decat exhaust
440cc injectors with adjustable FPR set at 3.5 bar
Walbro 255lph fuel pump
Apexi powerfc running 1.45 bar boost
Green cotton induction kit
FMIC

It made 341bhp with 357lbs/ft torque, which comes in very quickly. the power does tail off at the top end quite soon though. This isnt a problem as I rarely take the car over 6k rpm anyway.

Heres the dyno graph

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

*coughs* get a bigger turbo!

Tidgy

think i agree, the 16g works fine on the ej257, just underpowered for the engine. if budgets the problem then will be fine to run it, if you ahve some money to throw at it then if you've had a forged build then a MD321 should fit the bill nicely

Jimmya85

hahahah.
Im afraid to buy I bigger turbo, becouse if my transmission break this season, Im going to be ruined becouse the EJ257 swap and injectors and so on is costing abit .

The power seems to coming in nice. Thats little bad that it will drop at 6000, I want it to revlimit

I sure it will be fine

Jimmya85

Bruce:
Is the car faster now after the engine swap, or is it just better drivability thru the revs? Just cuorius if it will hit 0-60 and so on faster, or it is just better to drive everyday/trackdays

bruce

iTrader: (5)

I went from the 2.0l vf22 turbo'd engine at around 310bhp 270lbs/ft torque to the figures you see in the plot, so my car feels a lot faster but I dont have any times to qualify it with.

I too would like a bigger turbo, 20g or the likes, but that will mean new uprated gearbox, new injectors plus the cost of the turbo and mapping.

Henrik

iTrader: (5)

Wow, that's a very nice looking graph I bet the car is a joy to drive, and easy to make progress with!

That's exactly the kind of engine characteristic I want - well I think it is anyway

bruce

iTrader: (5)

It is a lot of fun, spool up is almost instant in any gear but I feel it would be better if the torque level was maintained till the peak bhp at least.

Jimmya85

Hi guys. An update. Have done the 2.5 rebuild now, with 720cc injectors, Apexi and everything said above I also remapped it with E85 (like 105 octane)

We stopped at around 350 BHP, becouse the torque was damn high

Here you have it:

Boost: 1.25 bar
Max 351bhp/554nm (408 lbs) in engine
286bhp/465nm on wheels

Movie: Maxxtuning - www.maxxtuning.se




How much torque can the RA gearbox handle with everyday driving?
Never seen any specs on this, thats why I stopped this before we reached 600 NM that should be possible (440 lbs)

The car goes quite good, wanted little more top rev performance, but the TD05 -16 G didnt want that as we know

Cheers!