turboted

If in doubt get a second opinion, it could save you a lot of dosh.

This message may be long, but well worth reading.

A supposed Japanese car specialist recently diagnosed my 95/96 STI V2 555 with between 50-80% leakage in all cylinders. It had burnt the tops of the spark plugs completely off and had supposedly melted the piston tops revealing the top ring.
I just couldn’t understand why the car still rang so well once new plugs had been put in?

So before I got down to the serious rebuilding stuff I thought a second opinion was in order.

So it turns out that the pistons are fine the pressure is fine, around 115 I think they said, means nothing to me.

There rolling road revealed the car is running lean probably due to the HKS filter not doing such a good job of filtering nasty particles out of the air and consequently damaging the MAF.

Lesson Learnt.

The first workshop was spotless, very well set out and looking like the tip top Japanese car specialist as advertised. However they new Jack s---t on this occasion.

Marlin Engineering on the other hand was clean and tidy, but lacking the polished look of the first mob. However all that glitters is certainly not gold. The friendliness and expertise of Martin and their tuning expert Dan was far superior.
I strongly recommend anyone looking for a good 4x4 rolling road set up and expert advice to give them a call. They have certainly got my business. . They also only charged me half the price for the same, but accurate work that the first mob.


Will now scan the forums for ideas on where to get a MAf from.

In the mean time can anyone offer some suggestions and prices?


Further to my post on 21st March

"If in doubt get a second opinion, it could save you a lot of money”

I have this to report.

What an absolute waste of space the owner is.


CONT:


I went back to the Aylesbury based rolling road and got a load of absolute rubbish from them.

They refused to believe the car was okay and insisted it needed a new engine. They wouldn’t put it on the rolling road / recheck the compression/leak down test or offer any sort of good will gesture. They wouldn’t even come out with me for a test run to prove it was running perfectly well. The boss’s arrogant attitude and unwillingness to recheck the car will now result in a small claims action for his stupidity.

My advice is don’t go near the Jap specialist who has a rolling road located near Rabans lane Aylesbury. Travel a little further up the road to Marlins in Bletchley; you will be looked after by professionals there.

Every one can make a mistake; I accept that, what I don’t accept are idiots who are not man enough to admit they may have made a mistake even when all the evidence indicates they have.

Maybe they were hoping I would ask them to fit a replacement engine?
I wouldn’t trust them to change the wheel now.

ZEN Performance

A leakdown test is completely different to a compression test. You should be seeing figures of around 140psi on the compression check, so your engine isn't 100% fine. The original diagnoses may be spot on, and with new plugs it will run seemingly okay, but it may well start using oil and die completely in the not to distant future.

Perhaps the accurate picture lies somewhere in between, but I wouldn't be took quick to judge just yet.

The rookie

iTrader: (1)

115 is certainly on the 'a bit to low for comfort' side.....as Paul has said a leakage test is a different animal altogether, the actual results as numbers are meaningless, but you really need both compressions AND effciiencies to give a proper diagnosis, if they used the leakage tester properly, then 50-80% on any machine shows a major problem, listening to intake, exhaust or oil filler will tell you where the leak was, I would guess the oil filler based on what they told you first off - doing the tests 'wet' on a Subaru doesn't really work unfourtunately!

Is it possible your attitude when you went back was a little 'confrontational' and hence the responce you got?

Simon

turboted

I was very careful not to be confrontational at all. I was very polite, and asked questions like what would you do if you were in my position and would you have another look as a good will gesture. All I got in reply was basically “we are right the other place is wrong, your engine is shot and we won't double check it. Even after this diabolical display of customer service I just walked out politely. So now i am stuck between a rock and a hard place. Maybe i have jumped the gun?
Help ! "what would you do if you were me?
I did get a replacement MAF and the second Garage put it on the rolling road.

The figures were:
Coprrected power 244 BHP
Engine power 240BHP
Wheel power 169 bhp
Drag 71.8
Torque 275.3

Which i must say disapointed me some what.
Again the garage that did this reckons thats about right.????
I am trying to find out what other peole have got with a standard sti v2, but no takers as yet. Many thanks to both of you for replying.

Darren@JDM

iTrader: (53)

Forgive me for sounding a bit thick mate but what exactly has the first garage done to you other than give you there opinion why are you trying to take them to court ? you cant take someone to court for being arrogant and giving there honest opinion on an engine from what you have said above seems to have problems wether its running ok at the moment or not.Are you not just going to waste your own time and money ?

as355f1

why not just run it for a while, if the engines fooked its fooked so you may well use it until it stops, if it continues to run well with good performance and its not eating plugs then ya fine

turboted

Well I won't go into the technicalities of what the law says; but if I do go to small claims court it be a wee bit more solid than I didn’t like his attitude. However I will hold fire for a while and do a bit more research.

What I want to avoid if possible is spending another lot of money getting more checks done.

Yes I am annoyed very annoyed. I have forked out a total of 220 pounds for diagnostic work and I still don't know whether my engine is

A) Completely knackered, as first garage suggested.

B) Well Underpowered.

C) Or about right for a 1995 sti V2. as second garage suggested

The best method I can think of is to get some power figures from other STI v2 owners and do some comparisons.

The 115 figure was from the leak down test and was similar on all 4 bar No3 which had a very slight leak from the valves, could be heard from the exhaust. Not sure what the compression test result was, but they were happy with it?

Can someone please help me or am I just meant to keep on driving and hope for the best?

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Some facts:

Its a 13 year old car and engine.
No dyno is 100% accurate and can vary by day to day and dyno to dyno.

Dont totally dismiss what the first garage are saying and as Paul at Zen has said, they are two different tests. It depends on what you 'want' to believe.

Would everything be suddenly ok if someone told you that the power was 280bhp and the engine was fine?

JimmyBFC

Always take it somewhere with an A1 reputation IMO, you won't go far wrong.

I know there are soem great garages out there that don't come on here for business thta would do a sterling job, but if it was me id opt for taking it somewhere that has a great reputation.

ZEN Performance

If melted plugs were pulled out the engine, then I would be inclined to go with the original diagnoses, engine is fubar, even if it is indeed running.

prwatts

I simpathise with Turboted. I have a problem when one has to tiptoe around any supplier and kiss his @ss and try and elicit information from him. It's kinda like the blonde being told a load of bull because they dealer thinks she is too thick to know better. And it's not like we come in all high and mighty and know better than the supplier. We acknowledge that we know a bit and they ought to know more. When a supplier (and they are darn quick to take your bucks) gets all uppity I say go elsewhere. Vote with your wallet. And beware when one supplier defends another. We want to be professional and don't want to get into a slagging match on the www but these guys need to understand they drive us to it. I would be rich if I had a fiver every time I have been made a promise or undertaking that's been broken.

OK, back to your problem - I suggest a second opinion from someone who doesn't know the background. What about a bore scope? Does anyone have one, so you can see the top of the pistons?

What about your oil - if the engine is in this bad state (supposedly) there should be evidence in the oil and oil filter.

Midland Scoobies is organising a rolling road day in April - get your jammie on that and check the power again.

ZEN Performance

we have a bore scope, we can and have used it to diagnose melted/seized pistons in cars that are running, although a well melted piston would reveal a very low compression test result.

turboted

Gentlemen. Many thanks for your responses, I will try and give a suitable responses to all of them all.

Dynamix, Yes I realize its 13 years old, that’s why I would like to see how it compares with like for like cars, maybe I can get some sort of comparison figures that will help me decide just how bad, good or normal my car is. The question still remains is it Option A, B or C from my earlier email. And yes I would be happy if it showed 280 BHP as opposed to 240BHP

Paul, I am very much temped to come on up and get you to have a look. Garage B reckoned the mixture had probably been running lean for some time and that had damaged the plugs. Now I haven't a clue what this means but they said the Lamda was over 1.1 before I swapped the MAF and they couldn’t measure it above that?? The HKS air filter was also extremely dirty. New filter and replacement MAF has now put the mixture okay or so I am told.

Both Garages looked at the bores with a scope. The second garage at first reckoned they could to see the piston ring, but then after some debate and several second opinions and viewing angles decided it was the way the piston was designed that made it look like the ring was in view, but in fact it wasn’t?? The first Garage reckoned to see the ring on 2 of the pistons and said all of them had 50 to 80% leakage.

Pwwatts, thank you; it makes me feel better to know that some one understands and sympathizes with my situation. What you say is inline with my thinking. I am no expert thought and was maybe I was a little hasty in my judgment of the first garage. Thank you Paul for pointing that out. I just found it hard to believe that the car now runs so well with all the damage and the 50 to 80% leakage on all 4 cylinders. Anyhow I am going to play this out until I get to the truth. One way or another I will get to the bottom of this.

turboted

Jimmy,

Looks like a trip to Zen may be the way to go, or perhaps the rolling road day?? Like i said i have already spend 220 pounds just on testing the engine and now have 3 different scenarios as what can be wrong. How much more have i got to fork out??

turboted

Hi Paul, tried sending a private message, but it came back. will give you a call tomorrow, hope that is ok.

Tidgy

done a bit of digging for info for you

leak down test shows if the pistons are as should be, there shouldn't be much leakage so if its showing as 50-80% then sounds bad to me.

but thats only from digging around to find out what the test actually is

ustolemyname??stevieturbo

iTrader: (1)

After reading this...it sounds like you just dont want to believe the truth.

Just because your car is driving, and makes a little bit of power, does not mean it is healthy !!!!
And has been said, if damaged plugs were removed from the engine, then its very likely, there is more severe damage inside.