nullfork

Hi all,

My scooby is a P1. Spec being:-
Walbro fuel pump, Bob Rawle Map, K&N air filter, H&S Decat/Center, IC Spray, NoDV, AP6 335F brakes, AP4 330R brakes, Goodridge hoses, DS2500 pads,
PPG Str8 1-4 box, Exedy Pink clutch, Superlight flywheel.

Driving home from work tonight, off the M6 up the sliproad to the roundabout on full boost. Come off boost to slow down for the roundabout, into 4th, 3rd, steer around roundabout.. Car cuts out, basically stalls..

Try and re-start her while she's coasting in neutral, won't even turn over! I mean it wouldn't even make one revolution!

Car comes to a stop, push her onto the side and try and start her, still won't turn over. Wait for 50 minutes till RAC arrive, now the car will start but it sounds BAD (rattles and knocks!). The RAC guy takes the oil filler cap off and has a smell. I think his exact words were "your oil is cooked, it's overheated mate". Thing is I've got no fuel pressure / temp gauges, and the water temp gauge (in the dash) was not giving any bad readings from what I remember.

Anyway the car has been recovered home now, I have made an audio recording of the car being started and idling for about 10 seconds.

Anyone suggest what it might be?

Also bear in mind the car was serviced 1 month ago (by a very reputable company) and at the same time had a gearbox rebuild with a super-light flywheel.

HELP!!!!

Suppose it's a good excuse for 2.5ltr rebuild ;-)

http://nullfork.myzen.co.uk/engine_failure.mp3

RON

Switch it off..... NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! sounds awful doesn;t it!!!!!!!!!!! not good at-all....!!

chris-RB5

Sounds like the big ends to me!
Bye bye bottom end
The joys of owning a classic impreza
Feel for you mate been there.

aidyc

hi, last year i was driving along nicely, suddenly felt it lose power for a second then pick up again, looked at all the clocks and gauges, all looked fine, came to the end of a road and clutched to slow down, the engine stalled, got towed home. mechanics first thoughts were melted piston but i assured him it was always drove on super unleaded. turned out the oil pump fins were worn and not enough oil was being pumped to the bottom resulting in the big end bearings going! no warning at all. but done a full rebuild then and all is good!!

flashgordon666

how much was tht?

Scobman

Defo sounds like the big ends are away. Guess its time for 2.5!

nullfork

Yeah some sort of conversion anyway, don't want this crap happening again.

Something else that happened at the time (which was strange). After she seized and was coasting over to the side of the road, I had my foot on the brake, however when I took my foot off the brake the car kept moving forward (like there was still some serious compression working it's way out through the pistons). Bizarre.. This "pressure" stayed there for a good few seconds too.

Stu

shogo10

iTrader: (1)

Atering hearing that mp3 there is a distinct ticking noise like the hydraulic tappets aren't getting enough oil did u check the oil level was there any??

Perhaps your oil pump is goosed seems an important thing to check to prevent big end failure and replacing it aint a hardship or expensive but saves u big bucks in the end?

nullfork

Yeah I totally agree, at the start there is a low rumble (like bottom end), then there is a ticking. It's probably a good guess that the oil pump is gone. The oil level is fine btw and is 2 months fresh.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Yep, that does sound f**ked I'm afraid. Reckon you may have sufferered an oil pump failure: there is a known fault whereby a valve can get stuck open IIRC. Roger Clark do a modified versio for about £20 more than std. Might be a good investment for your rebuild.

Condolences mate, must be very upsetting.

All the best gettuing it sorted. May be worth talking to David at Api for rebuild options, he'll advise even if you want to get the work done elsewhee. Top bloke and no BS.

All the best,

Ns04

robsw

The ticking may well be a piston clipping a valve due to the bottom end failure.

Andy.F

You should get someone who knows subarus to have a listen to it, the flat 4 alloy block sounds different to most engines when its running right, never mind wrong, so I wouldn't rely on the RAC mans diagnosis !

Andy

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

BIG ends NO DOUBT about it, Number 3 if I hear correctly.

David APi

nullfork

LOL, thanks for the precise diagnosis David
I'm actually just up the road (Southam Road) from you.

Maybe you can help me with a question I have.

Obviosuly I'm now thinking of a new bottom end / internals. What I'm trying to decide is what to do.. The options as "I" see it are:-

1. Keep current EJ20 block and beef up the crank/rods/pistons/bearings.
2. Go for a closed deck EJ20 and beef up internals.
3. Go for a EJ22 and beef up internals if needed.
4. As 3 but stroke (EJ25 crank) or hone/bore out to 2.33.
5. Go for a EJ25 and beef up internals if needed.
6. Buy a ready built EJ25 closed deck block at stage 1/2/etc. from somehwere like flat4onlne.

What do you think?

My main sticking point is, why do some people go for 2.2/2.33 and some for 2.5.. is it rev range related or what?

There's too much data to consider, I can't bloody cope!

Shark Man

Oil pump failure is rare. But often gets blamed.

Knackered big-ends or mains will starve the top end of oil. Regardless of oil pump condition (obviously moreso if its knackered as well ).

With a worn or damaged big end or main bearing, oil leaks out the sides of the bearing. This results in loss of oil pressure, as the pump cannot maintain the flow. The result is the rest of the engine is starved of oil and won't last long.

Therefore, switch off, and don't start again until after it rebuilt, as the more its run in the condition, the more likely damage will be done to other componenets of the engine which may still be re-useable when it is rebuilt.

SSCJAY

The 2.33 is regarded as the ultimate bullet proof bottom end, but comes at a price.

You do not mention any turbo up grade, so you will probably best getting a standard ej257 to drop in, or if you are planning further mods (judging by your gearbox and brake choice you probably are) then get the EJ257 with forged pistons & rods (get one from america and you might see change from £2000 including shipping & duties etc) this will be reliable upto 450-500bhp and will easily be able to rev to 8k.

Oh and one more option for your list:

7. Keep your block and stroke to 2.15 using 79mm crank (would need different pistons)

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Give him a phone mate!

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

Assuming that you are not hell bent on keeping it as a genuine P1, then I'd go 2.5 with steel rods and forged pistons.

Remap with Tek 3 or upgrade to Simtek and do away with the MAF [ better idea ] A few other bits to do of course but that will depend upon budget.

If you can manage to get here now I have a customer in one like that today and you can have a quick demo of what you'll get. His is rather more modified than the brief description above. BUT you'll get the idea of the capabilities.

We are out road testing the car now and in and out during the day BUT, the offer is good. If you are that local, let me have an address and we'll drop by whilst road testing.

David APi

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Phooowarrrrr, Filth!!!

Don't forget the stonking great turbo.........MD321T, perhaps?

*dissappears off for a cold shower*

Ns04

nullfork

As long as it looks like a P1, that's the main thing, at the end of the day I won't ever be getting rid of her so it's a life long investment to me.

Also, I've got to say how much I appreciate what you're saying regarding dropping by / test drive, not very often you come across people so genuine!

Unfortunately I'm working in Cov at the mo so won't be back till after 5:30pm. You can stop by and laugh at the dead P1 if you want tho ;-)

2.5 is sounding good to me, it's just will it be as bullet proof if say for instance in the future (years down the line) I decide to run silly boost, and my main concern would it take high revs as well..?

Also what do you think to the closed deck 2.5s?

Thanks again!

Stuart

P.S. I'm probably going to keep the VF28 on for the time being and just benefit from the extra displacement (after a map of course), although further down the line it will be an MD / hybrid.

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

High revs on a 2.5 is limiter set at 7400 on an MD321T at the moment. High and 2.5 are not words that go together. But, The way they go up to 7,4 is more than enough. They will not rev and make any worthwhile power above that anyway.

Why not pop in on Saturday am for a talk through of what and how and how much ?? I assume that you know where we are ?? I will be here until 11.30 but not a second later as I have an appointment in Rugby at midday.

Bacon rolls at 10.30 if that convinces you.....................

David APi

GazTheHat

/fixed

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

*removes ski-mask* Gaz, knows too much!!!

Ns04

SSCJAY

With the p1 heads that's probably right, but with the right heads they can rev well past that, I think it is a bit of a myth that the 2.5 is not a 'revvy' engine.

My brothers STI8 (with 2.5) pulls all the way to the 8k redline. and gives you whiplash when you hit the limiter

SSCJAY

Oh sorry, was reffering to 'Built' motors not the standard EJ257

nullfork

I take it by that you mean an EJ257 block with uprated crank/rods/pistons/bearings then?

Thanks for the input.

SSCJAY

EJ257 with Rods & Pistons, the factory crank is ok for upto 1000 bhp!!!
Standard bearings are o.k for 400-450 bhp builds, but people normally always put acl race bearings in for peace of mind on any built motor.

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

I'm not at all sure about the claim re 1000 hp on a standard crank. That IS pressing your luck. AND remember that anything that makes 1000 hp has cost heaps so the risk / cost ratio needs to be kept in perspective and a £1500.00 steel crank would be the safe / right way to go. Bearing in mind all the other cost to get to 1000 hp, the extra cost between standard crank and billet steel is probably one of the cheapest things you'd buy.

We would always use the original crank/rod bearings in any NEW Subaru supplied block, as the bearings are selective sized to the crank. That is what all the letters and numbers on the front web refer to. Sized bearings are not available to buy, they are first fit only from the factory. BUT they are measured and sized to closer tolerances than any of us after market engine builders can achieve and if it ain't broke,...................

David APi

nullfork

Speaking to Andy Forrest, he says he has a 2.5 sti standard crank running 800bhp. Don't know if that's with OE rods and bearings though.

Stuart

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

He is a Scotsman, that's not a fair comparison