leegtr

Morning Guys and girls,

I am trying to sort out an intercooler for my r reg classic Subaru estate and I have been trying to decide on FMIC or TMIC etc.

For the people in the know which FMIC is good in terms of performance, qulaity and cost as the price varies from £150 (ebay special) to £1000 plus.

The car will be 350 BHP if that affects the choice people would make.

Thanks

Lee

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Avoid the ebay specials IMO.

To a certain degree you pay for what you get, some of the ebay specials tend to be worse than the std TMIC from what I have heard.

fishfire

I got an AutoBahn 888 item from Flat4online, which is a cheap option, but I have had some good results using this intercooler and would say this is one of the better cheap ones. 319.8Bhp on a VF22 @ 1.4 Bar and 333Bhp on an MD191 at 1.55Bar with supporting mods. Just rebuilt my engine with forged bits and using a Blouch TD06-20G turbo, results soon

I firmly believe that front mount is the way ahead, as top mount is, in my opinion, a daft place to put an intercooler that needs cold air! Yes you can make good power on an uprated top mount, but it is very susceptable to heat soak from a bloody hot engine and turbo. Again, in my opinion, I wouldnt waste your time fannying around trying to make a larger TMIC fit, just fit a front mount and be done with it.
I didnt have any noticable lag increase that some people mention, when I converted to front mount either.

I also agree with the above about ebay items. Having spoken to Scooby Mania, they confirmed my doubts as they claim to have tested a few ebay specials and found very bad pressure drops. So to a certain extent, I agree with the "you get what you pay for" scenario. I wouldnt however fork out £1K + for the likes of HKS, Greddy etc as I believe are paying for the name. Dont get me wrong, they are very good, but are far, far too expensive.

In conclusion, I would say, get the best one you can afford from a reputable company and avoid ebay specials.

Hope that helps

Chris

B0DSKI

iTrader: (17)

Always worth looking at APS they are renowned for making some superb kit

B0DSKI

iTrader: (17)

Always worth looking at APS they are renowned for making some superb kit

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

I agree with both of Bodski's statements

Mother Theresa

My advice would be to avoid a FMIC at that sort of power level as it robs you of spool. Several people on here with that sort of power have put on an FMIC and then regretted it and taken it off again.

leegtr

Must admit the more I research for my power levels I am swaying towards either an STI 8 TMIC or a hyperflow TMIC currently.

Mind you that will change in a day

fishfire

Never had an issue with reduced spool/increased lag when I fitted the FMIC, although I have never run a smaller turbo. Smallest I have run is the VF22. So maybe I am just used to comparitivley laggier turbos. From my personal experiences, I would not go back to a tmic.

Minimum power I ran on my FMIC was 291.3 with supporting mods, again with no issues.

Bigger TMIC will do the job, just not my personal choice mainly due to location within the engine bay.

leegtr

If I was to go down the FMIC route what would the best value cooler be.

Is there a market leader at the £500 bracket?

Plus would I need to change my existing aor filter arrangement?

fishfire

Airbox would have to come out if you fit a FMIC to make way for the pipework.

APS are very good but a bit more than £500 (around £700 iirc) my fmic was £300 from flat4online (AutoBahn 88). Having spoken to niel (Listerofsmeg) he recons the AutoBhan fmic's are good for the money, and having had one fitted now for 18 months with good results I am inclined to agree.

If I had had the money at the time I would have gotten an APS item

dezmondo

I fitted a Hybrid GT spec FMIC which was way less than £500 from Dannyboy007 on here and is currently running 330ish bhp with supporting mods (view my scooby). It is the one API recommend too and fitted first time with no alterations to the pipework needed (unlike some FMIC's you can buy). I didn't notice a massive increase in lag but the Air charge temp is significantly lower at all speeds (including stationary) compared to a TMIC! Looks the nuts too! You will have to budget for a decent induction kit (Apexi power intake my choice (less than £100 from Indigo GT) and some odd lengths of silicone hose to connect everything up, and a DV adaptor too.
Fitted mine in under a day to a classic and won't be going back to TMIC anytime soon!

leegtr

I take it that was second hand mate?

I thought this intercooler choice was going to be straight forward but I have found about ten different ways forward

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Do yourself a favour and fit an Air Charge Temp guage now so that you know if it is a problem and whether needed.

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

I got this one as well, but I had to butcher the pipework (my93) to get it too fit. Still not quiet right and I still think I have a slight airleak.
Personally If I did it again I would go for one of the later topmounts. Yes may suffer from heat soak but temps generally drop as soon as you start moving again so shouldnt really be a problem with normal road use (my theory if the temps rise its because your in traffic, so you wouldnt cane it immediately anyway)

Henrik

iTrader: (5)

hear, hear!

leegtr

Still trying to make my mind up but with mine being a 1997 UK spec If I go down the TMIC rout I need to do alot of work on the scope and under tray so I wam thinking that a FMIC will be the easier option?

scouse2

iTrader: (2)

i have just bought a (ab88 fmic) £189.00 to your door from a recent group buy at this price its got be worth a look organised by kips supplied by bren @ apex
this is a direct fit to your car without modding the pipes i believe
you say it will be 350 hp what other mods have you done?

hth danny

leegtr

Well I have got the car off my mate who has built the car to a really good spec.

Full rebuild (sti 9 crank and roads, forged pistons, top end rebuild including cams etc)
New larger turbo (make and model escapes me currently had a memory blank)
Larger injectors
K&N induction
Power FC mapped at 1.4bar
Roger Clark full decat exhaust system
Larger Fuel pump
Oil cooler.
Defi gauges and controller

Sure there is more I have forgotten but gices you a general idea.

Hence in the reason I want to get a new intercooler as it is the most obvious thing to do.

Any thoughts on intercooler ?

CupraDave

iTrader: (1)

Agree with dezmondo

I also got my Hybrid GT Spec from Dannyboy007 and have not got one single bad thing to say against it, it is a top quality product which is currently (as far as I am aware) only available in the UK through Dan (I could not find anywhere else to get one from in the UK anyway), but it is sold right across Japan and the US. Hybrid

I had no major problems with fitting the Hybrid (just a few awkward bits) and did it by myself over a period of a few evenings, as dezmondo said you will need to order a coulple of extra silicone hose pieces from somewhere but they are easy enough and cheap enough to obtain, I got mine from Viper Performance

There are a few fitting guides posted up in here to help you with the installation

There are also many many threads in here warning folks about buying cheap FMICs use the search function and read some of them then draw your own conclusions mate, everyone has different opinions, listen to them all them make your own choice based on what you read. Research and buy once

nope it is brand new mate and quite a bit less than £500

scouse2

iTrader: (2)

nice engine spec

as i said i have autobahn 88 not fitted but if you could get 1 then that plus a remap once fitted should be around £5-600.00 all in
btw the intercooler looks a good build quality no need for the bonnet scoop you could do a reversed scoop just a thought
all i would say is ask some of the tuners on here what they would do at this level (andy f zen jgm brd)should all be able to tell you the way to go

you here some say the front mount makes it laggy so some stay with a top mount but i have asked this ? i was told that you would not notice it at all
maybe it could be people have not had there car mapped after fitting
good luck mate

stigaz

i was trying to find hybrids site ,is hybrid made by saber performance in australia,found at powerdigger.com ??

dezmondo

As Cupra Dave said, it was brand spanking, Danny had 10 for sale, he might have some left?

The hybrid one was recommended to me by David at API as budget option which is good enough to take you to a higher level if you get there with the rest of the spec (900bhp I have read). With the spec you have got (depending on your transmission and turbo) I would have thought you would be heading above 400bhp too and a FMIC would seem to be the definate way to go for that kind of power. Another consideration is that with higher spec and higher power, keeping the engine temps as low as poss is paramount for the safety and longevity of the internals, although a TMIC will drop the temp when the car starts moving again, you are powering off the lights with a properly hot engine and asking for trouble!

Hybrid FMIC all the way

bren@apex

iTrader: (20)

Im not absolutely 100% on this but I have an inkling that the Autobahn88 and Hybrid kits are essentially the same. The Hybrid kits used to have chrome plated pipework that looked tatty after a short period on the car whereas the Autobahn use a flat aluminium finish. Not as bling but they dont look a bin after a couple of K miles.

http://www.apexperformance.co.uk/cat...s/IMG_3544.jpg

http://www.apexperformance.co.uk/cat...s/IMG_3542.jpg

We have 8 or 9 Autobahn kits in stock and ready to go at £189

We have run well in excess of 400bhp with one of these cores with no problems.

The Fixer

Forget the Hybrid and Autobahn stuff, you may as well just stick with the STi top mount which will handle plenty of power. If your going over 400HP go front mount but use either APS or Hyperflow, both quality products and FIT correctly first time, no messing about.

jnorth85

iTrader: (1)

this is my plan for my classic.
instant response and 450+BHP


Of course i plan on getting the Full-Race Motorsports Call us toll free at (866) FULL-RACE kit, it includes a twin scroll GT3076R turbo!

CupraDave

iTrader: (1)

as I said, I had no problems with the Hybrid what so ever, just a couple of bits I found fiddly cause I have never fitted one before and was being my typical stupid self

CupraDave

iTrader: (1)

Not trying to sound like an expert or anything but I was under the belief that the Hybrid was of tube and fin design and the AB88 was bar and plate, and that tube and fin design was the better for cooling as it offers less resistance to the on coming air

anyway not to worry, I am happy with what I have and it suits my application

The Fixer

Dont bother, that picture is the kit fitted to a left hand drive car, currently it wont fit a right hand drive car but they are working on a different up-pipe / downpipe combo for right hand drive cars.

bren@apex

iTrader: (20)

Hybrid Nissan 200SX S14 kit

Autobahn88 kit for a GC8

The cores are exactly the same. The pipework on the Autobahn is non bling and therefore non flaky.

The only real difference I can see is that the hose clamps with the Autobahn are jubilee type rather than T-bolt style.

Greddy use the exact same core in their M-Spec kits btw. Slightly different end tanks and car specific mounting tabs attached to the core itself rather than brackets as with the Autobahn but the core itself is identical