Thanks for all the info its looking like I will go to the front route as speaking with my mate he has mentioned that the engine re-build has been done with 450+ in mind.

The car only really needs a slightly bigger turbo and the intercooler to hit the high numbers in terms of engine but I am sure Gbox would be a different story!

Therefore I will go with the front incase I want to go higher in the future. Dont fancy doing the job twice. Mind you that will involve Gbox etc etc so that might be quite a long time

Mind you is it autobahn, hybrid or a different make decisions decisions

Cheers guys.

 

LOL Dunno what happened there

 

i will be putting the kit on my US 2.5RS once the V9 US STI running gear is swapped in!

 

The Hybrid GT Spec for Classics is a tube and fin design. FACT.
The later Hybrid GT pipework is aluminium polished and not chrome plated.
Tube and fin will have less pressure drop than bar and plate.
The last Autobhan core I saw was bar and plate.
Having fitted Autobhan twice, and many more Hybrid, the fit of the Hybrid and quality of the product is far superior.
One car brought to me with a high pitched whistle turned out to be a pin ***** in the weld on the aluminium core. It took some finding. That was Autobhan. I have had no such complaint from any Hybrids I have supplied.

I have a high powered STi 6 Wagon with an APS FMIC which at the time cost around £1150. I have a M/Y 95 WRX Wagon, currently 422 bhp with a Hybrid GT Spec. Both perform equally well although the APS is handling more power.
I have an STi 3 Wagon, P Reg and that is around 335 bhp. That has an STi 8 TMIC. That intercooler performs satisfactorily at that power level but only after fitting an STi 8 scoop. Various trials were done with STi 3, 7 and 8 scoops, before and after the fitment of the STi 8 TMIC.
Whether the TMIC will perform satisfactorily at far higher power levels remains to be seen.
Fitting an FMIC for the first time could be a full day's work. (now typically never more than 5-6 hours) Fitting the TMIC on the STi 3 Wagon was 10 hours the first day followed by two half days followed by some further time to stop the TMIC banging on the bulkhead. Now resolved.
It is a very neat installation but involved fabricating brackets and pipes and was far more work than I envisaged to make it neat and acceptable.
I don't think I would undertake that again as it would be far easier to fit an FMIC the performance of which is already recognised.
All three cars monitor ambient and air charge temperature at the throttlebody so I have an accurate picture of how each set up performs.

 

With that spec you have the potential to run some decent power, so would definatly say FMIC. Larger TMIC's can be just as much of a pain in the ar*e to fit as a fmic, and there are less power limitations with fmic due to the volume of air which can be cooled.
When I changed from an STI TMIC to an AB 88 FMIC, I didnt notice any difference in throttle response/lag/spool at all, AND charge temperatures were consistantly cooler than the STI top mount even in heavy traffic.

 

Hybrid have changed their kits since we dealt with them then. Autobahn88 have released a new kit, I wonder if theyre now playing catch up. Is this similar to the Hybrid kit?

New Autobanh intercooler kit

 

The Hybrid kit has less pipework than the AB88 one in the pic, only 4 pieces. and the cooler itself looks quite a bit bigger than the AB88 one

The cooler and pipework are not as shiney as they are in the pic



Hybrid on my car

 

The new kits are completely different then. The pic of the Hybrid shows theyre still using a generic core made to fit a wide range of vehciels and then supplied with vehicle specific brackets. The new AB are vehicle specific now.

The Hybrid kit also still looks to use chrome plated pipework, or is that just how they look in the pic?

Im pretty sure the cores will be a similar size, all the Chinese manufactured kits tend to be 600x280x76mm regardless of the brand of the reseller.

If you look at the old AB kit vs the current Hybrid then you can see similarities. If you look at the shape of the Hybrid and AB pipework youll see that they appear to be identical. You can see that the pipes look the same bar the Hybrid are shiny. They even seem to have the same weld points. The only thing I cant see on the Hybrid is a sdv take off point but maybe thats just because of the angle of the pipe.

AB pipes

If you look at the silicon hoses and even the mounting brackets then youll see that they also look the same as the Hybrid offering.

Autobahn mounting kit

It appears that the two companies source the fitting kits from the same place but that Hybrid have moved on with their core.

Autobahn have now moved on but in a completely different direction and now have a completely car specific kit rather than generic core with car specific mounting kit.

 

 

The pic you posted is of an old kit?

 

polished for marketing purposes I would suspect

HDI

 

Nah, I think theyre the previous chromed type, theyve just not updated the pics because they havent got round to it or because people like the chrome finish so Hybrid still portray them as coming like that.

Interesting to see this kit, looks like I was right in the first place and Hybrid and Autobahn do source from the same factory. Cant see any difference between this and the first generation Autobahn except, as I said from the start, the hose clamps are different. Now that Hybrid dont do the chrome finish it looks like the clamps and branding are the ONLY difference.

Hybrid Bar and Plate kit

If Im right then the pipes in all the Hybrid kits are the same as the Autobahn. Unless one of them are just copying the others pipe kit and have them manufactured in a different place, which, knowing how China works, is unlikely. Its possible though

 

HDi, the company who produce the Hybrid IC's are an Australian based company, not Chinese.

On the HDi website under the classic WRX they have used the same pic for the Monster bar and plate FMIC as they have for the GT Spec. I suspect cause from a pic like that you aint really gonna tell if it is bar and plate or tube and fin.

The monster bar and plate ic is showing as out of stock on thier site, and from my understanding is no longer available, and as previously mentioned the GT Spec is of tube and fin design not bar and plate.

With the pipework I s'pose that regardless of manufacturer, the pipe work on a FMIC for a classic Impreza will essentially look the same anyway as they are produced for the same car

 

They might be based in Australia but that doesnt mean they dont use a Chinese manufacturer.

Ive been dealing with this sort of stuff for 7 years, its what I do for a living. My job is to find, order, test and develop parts. Ive sold thousands of intercooler kits from various suppliers round the world. My company turns over nearly 2 million a year in performance car parts. I have a wide range of car products manufactured for me through companies in the USA, China, Korea, Taiwan and Japan. I do have some idea of what Im talking about

Im not out to cause an argument, just illustrate how the market works.

I dont want to upset anyone so Ill leave it there

 

Bren is spot on about this, both the hybrid and AB88 are made in china, with the hybrid then being shipped on to australia for distribution afaik.
Having looked into this myself I think the major difference in price on these is down to the shipping costs. As far as I know bren sea ships these by the bucketload while the hybrid suppliers air freight them, air mail is very expensive for these.
As for actual costs the hybrid are around 70% more than the AB (cost price from supplier before freight), but you have to remember they need to be shipped to aus then hybrid need to add their profit margin on, so the actual production cost is probably very similar, the AB ones come pretty much direct from the factory by all accounts. I've never seen them side by side, but I bought a AB one from bren last year, quality was very good.

My only gripe is that the pipes were flimsy, I overtightened the clips and made the pipework oval in the process, it now will not seal at all. This was as much my own fault as anything else but it pays to be carefull when fitting one, the hairspray method seems the best bet and just tighten the clips by hand with a screwdriver. Its a pain becuase no one will supply just the pipes so looks like I will have to fork out for a whole new kit.

Other than that service from bren was A1, quick delivery and supplied exactly what he said he would for a v.good price.

I'm almost sure that the stories on here of people fitting a FMIC then complaining of huge lag and late spool are due to incorrect fitment resulting in air leaks.

 

It is a long time since I have read so much bollocks on Scooby Net.

 

LOL!

 

With regards to what in particular? I'm more than happy to put my hands up and say I was wrong if thats the case.

 

The quote below is from the well respected Australian Autospeed :

The increase in lag should be minimal on a well designed system. Do the sums for yourself. Calculate engine air consumption per second then calculate the increased air capacity between the FMIC system and the O/E system. As a percentage it is negligible.

I fitted an STi 8 TMIC to an STi 3 Wagon. Fitting took a full day of around 10 hours plus part of two further days with a few hours follow up to fettle the TMIC core banging on the bulkhead. With the O/E STi 3 scoop results were unacceptable. I tried an STi 7 scoop but that was still not particularly good and ended up with an STi 8 scoop. Also essential is the STi 8 undertray (or make your own carbon fibre alternative) to go with the scoop before reasonable results are achieved.
The TMIC, undertray and scoop will probably cost as much as a reasonable FMIC which can be fitted easily in a day.


Dynamix :
Good advice. Any CLASSIC Subaru producing more than 300 bhp is probably already developing high charge temperatures even on STi 5 and 6.
On an STi 3 Wagon at 335 bhp and O/E TMIC, the air charge temps, measured at the throttlebody, shot past the guage maximum reading of 69.9c during a standing start from normal temperature, 0-100mph. With the STi8 scoop it was still well off the guage before reaching 120mph.
If you fit an ACT guage you know what is happening and confirm or otherwise that you actually need to make improvements. You will already have TMIC performance figures and you can then compare these with whatever solution you come up with.
How can you know if something works well or not if you have no base figures and temperature monitoring equipment.
I usually express intercooler performance as degrees over ambient so obviously you need the ability to monitor two temperatures. During testing I have also measured temperatures before the intercooler and after the intercooler. (Also pressure readings at these points).

CupraDave. Referring to the Hybrid:
I originally supplied these through several group buys I organised about five years ago when the price of an FMIC was typically £1200. 5no.APS FMICs had just cost five of us £1140 each. Since then I have stocked Hybrid and amongst others, supply many top tuners including, Zen for use on their competition car and others mentioned here. I know of at least one application over 700bhp and several over 500 bhp.

Bren@apex :
Not so and very different. The Autobhan or Copyban as they are referred to in Australia are a heavier bar and plate design. The Hybrid GT is much more efficient tube and fin. The Hybrid GT pipework is polished aluminium. The old kits of two or three years ago were chrome plated and could look tatty after some time in service, particularly in salty environments. Polishing without plating or anodising also has environmental benefits as anyone with a knowledge of these processes will appreciate.

Bren :
Please do not compare apples with lemons. We are comparing the tube and fin Hybrid GT with shiney polished pipework with the bar and plate copy Autobhan with non shiney pipework and Nissan 200SX do not form part of this equation.
You are correct in that the Hybrid has far superior clamps.

Bren :
As the Autobhan dealer your product knowledge seems a little sketchy. What kit do you think you have posted up. Do you think it will fit a Classic???
To answer your question;No, nothing like a GT Spec Kit.

Now this really is getting out of hand:
Bren :
Look, as already exlained previously, by others and me, Hybrid GT are tube and fin and all the Autobhan I have ever seen are bar and plate. The GT Spec pipework is POLISHED aluminium. Yes it does look like chrome to the untrained eye.

Hybrid manufacture their own aluminium polished pipework in their own factory, certified to ISO 9001. ALL aluminium pipes are polished to the same standard. They have their own R and D facility, Dynapack rolling road, other sophisticated equipment for flow measurement, specialist bending, test programme and an on going ethos to improve quality day on day coupled to an extensive knowledge of Fluid Dynamics.
This is not a Copy Shop but a professional production operation.

Bren :
Why not bring one of your Autobhan kits here and we can compare, measure, weigh and photograph side by side. Unless Autobhan pipework has changed very recently for the WRX Classic kit, (the last one I saw having been supplied in August) then it is a very inferior copy by someone who does not understand fluid dynamics. The importance of the pipe diameter, the optimum core size, bend angle, distance between bends etc.

Borat :
Completely wrong. Hybrid are NOT shipped to Australia for distribution but they have facilities in China, Hong Kong and Australia.

CupraDave :
Basically correct Dave. The GT is tube and fin and the "RS" also called "Monster" is bar and plate. This is an older design and a much larger core that fills all of the gap at the front of the car. Ideal for a show car but not the best performance choice. How many would you like from my stock?

Bren :
I know you have sold car "tuning" products for around seven years and I don't doubt you do around £2m turnover per annum but that does not mean you have a great technical knowledge of intercoolers, thermal efficiency or fluid dynamics and you seem to lack indepth product knowledge. Some people move box loads of product quite successfully without great technical knowledge and good luck to them.
Tell us about your programme for relating to FMICs.

 

We have a couple of the previous generation kits left in stock, Ill buy in a Hybrid GT to compare before we sell all of the current stock.

My product knowledge on the Impreza is certainly lacking, Id be the first to aggree. Thats why we have just bought one.