catons scooby

hi i need some urgent help

my car (my99 uk turbo) has been in a garage for the past 2 months,
its having a 2.5 rebuild to hit 500bhp, its been fitted with a GEMS ecu and now theres a big problem, the car has been run in on this ecu and run standing for a while to get the base map sorted, and then all of a sudden its stalled and cut out, the ecu now has the capacitors or t-filters melted and ive been told its because the wiring on my car (for the amp and led lights) is messy and blown the ecu, the wiring has been on the car since i bought it (now a year)and now since the rebuild and new ecu has been put on it is somehow my fault, does this sound likely or would it be something else as the company are trying to blame and charge me for another ecu even though i havent had the car back yet, ive read and heard from other mappers that its a short circuit caused by a sensor in the engine rather than messy wiring by the stereo, the cars never blown a fuse or had a fault in it, any help is greatfull
cheers mark.c

Tidgy

all i'll say is what does gems read backwards.

ditch it and fit autronics or motech

catons scooby

why you say that
whats the problems with gems

sl1000

Mark,

I think it is best for you to try and work it out with the garage.
sounds that at the moment they are quessing why the Ecu blew.
So try to find out the real reason why it blew. to do this you need to do the research on the car itself. Maybe a third person could help with this.
pointing fingers at each other won't get you nowhere fast.

catons scooby

I NO BUT IM 150 MILES AWAY AND I HAVENT SEEN THE CAR FOR 2 MONTHS NOW SO I'M TRYING TO SEE WHY ECU's BLOW SO I CAN DETERMIN IF IT THEM OR ME
cheers mark.c

sl1000

just to check do you know which injectors where being used during first startup. Subaru uses saturated injectors which are high impedance (~12ohms) if they used peak and hold versions which are low impedance(~4 ohms)
they overloaded the injector drive circuit of the gems.
This would explain why it blew
The damage on your ECU also is near the injectors output pins (see previous posts) plus multiple T-Filters are damaged (4 injector outputs)

500

I can't see how an amp or LED's will cause the ecu to blow. it seems like they have caused a problem and are trying to wriggle out of it

StewartyBoy

I agree with the above post. Cant see how L.E.D lights or an Amp could blow the ECU. I think you need to be shipping in a third party and find out the truth, otherwise youll be walking with a limp from the shafting pal.

catons scooby

cheers guys thats mainly why i asked the question, just to see what grounds i can argue on,
keep the advise coming please as to all views on this problem will help me alot,
cheers mark

catons scooby

heres the damage

sl1000 do you have a pin layout of the ecu
cheers

dan83590

As said above you need to have a third party look over the car. Garages that own up when they are at fault are very difficult to come by. Tell the garage that you suspect that their workmanship may have caused the fault, see what the reaction is. If they do not co-operate tell them are you going to go away and think about what they said. Then a couple of days later ask if they mind if an independent third party auto electrician can check the vehicle to find fault.

If you suspect that their workmanship is at fault and you would like to pursue it be prepared for a long process if they dig in.

catons scooby

they already said i could do this as soon as i was told about the fault as they believe they cant do wrong on a car, i will go myself and look if the reply from GEMS (where the ecu is now) states they dont know what caused it,
im just getting my stats right before this happens so i know my points etc

cheers

andy97

iTrader: (1)

By the look of the burnt pcb, that board is write off. The board itself will have turned to carbon causing current links to each of the seperate tracks (double sided print aswell). The only way to repair it would be to cut away all the burnt circuit board replace all the damaged components in the burnt area by hard wiring them back into place (messy, ugly finish job), Then hope that there is no further damge to the driver circuits, plus find the original cause of the burn up.

catons scooby

well its like £1300 worth of ecu brand new so thats why i need help,
it cant be a write off if it can be fixed then,
keep them coming
cheers

sl1000

Pin out is in the manual of Gems
you can download it from their site
looking from the pic at least PIN 18, 25, 32 of connector A (most left) are damaged. These are ALL INJECTOR outputs.
I think Gems will confirm this.
The Garage Just did something wrong with the injectors.
Ask them to measure the resistance of the injectors.
Most probably they are Low impedance.(peak hold versions)

catons scooby

sl1000
thanks mate your a great help
downloaded the manual and all is what you say
top bloke cheers
ill await there reply on the matter from gems themselves and share it with you all,

catons scooby

have recieved info on ecu

GEMS say that the casing has come in contact with 12v so thats why it blew
any1 have ideas why

sl1000

maybe it wasn't placed right or forgotten screws.
probably the corner where connector A was placed touched the housing thereby blowing injector outputs.

Who placed it? You, the garage or someone else?

500

Not fitted correctly, too much solder on the board (unlikely), or a shorted injector wire to earth, or even a faulty injector causing a direct short would be my guess.

Do you have the serial number of the one you bought? is it the same? just a thought.

500

GEMS don't come with a base map, so I would guess that a garage has fitted it.

sl1000

If so then they should correct there mistake.

catons scooby

i havent seen it, or bought it
its still in the garage where the rebuild took place, they bought the ecu themselves direct from GEMS and fitted it
the company are very well known and have alot of experience in these fields

i did have an avcr connected to it about 3 inches from the ecu, this has been taken off by the company so maybe if it is the case, the removal of the avcr has caused a loose coneection by the ecu causing a cable to come loose and burn it out?
yes they fitted the base map etc.

500

If you haven't even used the car or bought the ECU, it's their problem !!!

Tell them you don't want the ECU, you will get the car picked up and a different ECU fitted, any work done will be checked and paid for upon checking by another garage, any rectification work that has been charged for will be knocked of the final bill from the first garage.


There is no way on earth that the amp wiring or LED's caused this.

Adam (an ex Vehicle security & In car entertainment fitter)

sl1000

Looks to me like a clear case .
If the garage agreed that they would exchange the ECU and also remove the AVCR. And it resulted in the blown ECU than they should definately correct their mistake.

catons scooby

ok
thanks you 2
ill wait till they tell me where exactly it has blown, they are not working again till monday

cheers
any1 else have any comments on the matter please speak freely as all the views will help

360ste

iTrader: (1)

If you want to get some more advice speak to Steve Simpson at TEGSPORT. Link below

TEG Sport front page

He fitted the GEMS to my STi and I have had no problems, he is independant from TEGSPORT but works the rolling road there. I think his own website is simposon motorsport.
Hope you get it sorted, I find ap[art from cold starting GEMS to be very good. Do you have to OE ECU as you will need it for MOT time.

catons scooby

yeah i do
i never knew i needed it

catons scooby

just to clarify the cause of the problem is UNKNOWN

ACCORDING to the garage it seems it could be a fault because of the wiring in the car is messy, ie leds are uninsulated, amp wired wrong (remote and live connected to the same supply) thus after a year of ownership have caused the wiring to MELT the new GEMS ECU fitted last a week ago,
GEMS have looked at the ecu, this is what they said
"The Subaru99 Ecu that was returned appears under careful inspection to have suffered from 12 Volts power coming in contact with filter ground. This probably happened while the Ecu was in its metal case and a live 12v wire came into contact with the case, it would be worth looking on the case for any arching marks. The filter ground acts a screening path to remove EMI and RFI from entering and exiting the Ecu. The ecu cannot be repaired, as there has been a small fire where the filter ground track glowed red-hot and burnt the glass fire material."
so this states that a cable near the ecu has come in contact with the casing
this is why i said that an avcr was disconnected by the company, as its wired to the ecu 3 inches away from the casing,
I will find the real cause out monday and will post the result,
i belive the company with my car are professional enough to find the problem and correct it so i will NOT be sending the car to another company,

i dont know why this thread is rated negative as its just a request for views on why this has happened and how to resolve it, £1300 is alot of money to just blink and waste, so i will say again
any help views or comments is welcome

johnnyroper

from what you have said in my opinion it is impossible for the messy led/stereo wiring to cause the fault as your original ecu would of suffered the same fault,i would say the garage that fitted it have dropped a bollock.
as the car was fine when you took it to them and the problem occured while in their possesion it is down to them to correct it.

catons scooby

its not impossible johnnyroper, if it was my fault and the LED has shorted out and caused the problem ill own up, but theres always 2 sides to it, its not impossible its my and nor is it impossible to be there fault, messy wiring (not faulty as it has worked for at least a year) can lead to a fault which would be my problem, and so can working on and around the immediate area of the ecu causing it a fault which would be there problem,
im mainly after advise on way to check and ensure the conclusion to the problem is correct,