velohead66

My WRX Type R V-Limited has had a crank failure meaning some big $$$ outlay to repair.

Any advantage (as they will split open the engine anyway) to increase from 2.0 Litre to 2.2 Litre.

What increase in torque etc can I expect.
Will engine be less strong.
Must ecu be re-done. (MY98)
Can ecu be done at a later stage (eg 1 year on)
Any other factors, like heads etc

Pros & Cons please.

911

Search the topic in Projects, it is all there!

velohead66

Hi 911
Would you recall the link to the below thread.
Looks like exactly what I need.

There is a great thread about building a 'steel' 2.5/2.33/2.2 in projects that has some really good info on the machining and the costs from those who actually do it. (very rare)

The cost difference is essentially the rebore/new liners and machining for the crank bearing.
Graham.

velohead66

OK, think I found the 'steel' crank tread now.

velohead66

Still some un-answered questions, though.
NB - I'm not a guru about any car engine, btw.

So a 2.2 L will produce more torque at a lower rpm (i presume).
Question - so for a given rpm of say 7,000 rpm , the 2.2 L will be less reliable than the 2.0 L due to the longer stroke of the 2.2 ?

As i'm keen getting my car back with a healthy increase in bhp, but not maximum bhp, can I put the original 2.0 L head back on, ie open deck ?
Will this restrict rpm / bhp / torque ?

ECU is standard as OEM JDM MY98. I guess i need a aftermarket ECU ?
At how much GBP ?

911

I am no expert but i do recall all the expert's words well, as this is an option for me this Xmas.

A properly built 2.0/2.2/2.35/2.5 will all be as reliable as an engine base.
Cost wise the built 2.0 is the cheapest (no re-bore/re-liner required.

The 2.35 seems to be the ballistic size, but the 2.5 is the best for gutsy torque, BUT, all need a matched turbo to capacity and above all the right mods/ecu/mapper.
For the 2.35/2.5 the heads need opening out to match the bore to the combustion chamber. I think you can get away with the 2.2.

A CDB is nice but not essential unless going for the 500 x 500 target.

Many have built a strong 450 x 450 on open blocks but have used quality parts and mapping.

THE wiz-kid in the UK is Mark at Lateral Performance, and he always turns-up in any of the mega builds.

Always remember the impact on the transmission and even the drive shafts of these monster engines.
If you have the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ you can get one made here for you.
There are about 3 or 4 suppliers with track records at 450+.

Beware: this is a very expensive game.

Graham.

velohead66

Thanks for your reply, Graham.
Appreciate it very much.

Thinking of doing the 2.2L with PMS, as I'm out in Brisbane.

I'm off to bed now, it's been a loooong day.
Especially with no car.

Daveo

Yes correct - standard heads match up to a 2.2 stroker.

Agree with all that Graham has said. Pointless going the stroker route if you're not gonna maximise the gains with ecu/map/and other additional mods (turbo/headers/injectors etc).

Dave

Prasius

iTrader: (1)

I was about to come on here to ask about stroker kits - not because I have any real intention of doing it - just idle curiosity prompted by my recent access to American import tuning magazines where several stroker kits are offered by various companies for the EJ20 and EJ25 (increasing displacement by about 250cc on both).

If your after contact details for any of these places and I'll have a poke through the couple of copies of Import Tuner, Modified and Super Street I have here for you.

911

For me the 2.2 is a great option but it is closer i think to 2.1, just 5% larger, hardly seems worth all the bother?

After all the great info that poured out of the real experts late last year I think it best to go the 2.35 as so many know what to do to get the best reliable end result.

I have the CDB so far....but scared to get started yet!

I think you need about 8K to do the basics and have the V3 Sti doner engine too (and do it yourself!).

Big bucks...

Prasius

iTrader: (1)

have to say not sure what the point of doing it to an EJ20 is when you can get an EJ25.. There may be valid reasons but superficial logic says that when Subaru has done the work for you..

911

The only way to get any of these engine combinations reliable and powerful is to add steel uprated rods, forged pistons and several other bits.
The stock 2.5 will not readily run 500+!

You do need to read the threads in projects as it is all quoted there, I'm just re-iterating it here.

Playsatan

iTrader: (2)

Just what are you including in that Graham?

I bought a brand new ej22t and had it converted to a fully "built" 2.33 for less that £2700. I also sold my sti 5 engine and brought the price to under £2k. Now the bolts on's are another story but the whole deal should still come in at under £4k.

velohead66

Just been quoted for the work now.

2.2L stroker, drive in drive out pice of AUD $7,000
Will also need ECU @ AUD $3,000 (including tuning on dyno).

Also agree that i would like to maximise potential by upgrading turbo/injectors/etc.
But the bank balance says not all in one go.


This all compares to a subaru quote of AUD $5,000 for an identical engine, but with no warrenty whatsoever.

911

Playsatan:
It was an estimate for the whole fully dressed engine and trans.

Box and clutch are about 4K (ppg Zen box, Exeedy twin plate) =6K left
CDB machined for the crank and top-hat sleeves+ crank/Rods/pistons for 500+ about 2.5K =3.5K left
Turbo (twised of course) =1.5 left

500 misc parts (or does that only happen to me?ie oils/remap) =1K left

Spend 1K due to my generalisations.

Graham.

Scoobyslammed

You helped me spend all my money... lol

2.35 is deffo the way to go... I'm changing my ECU in a couple of weeks... gonna chuck the 800's in and get it boosting over the 25psi mark...
I'm sick of it running 14psi... although it is very quick now... lol
I'd say its quicker NOW at 14psi than it used to be on the 2 litre block running 22psi + anti-lag... using a VF34 !!!
So 25psi should be f***ing balistic!!! lol
Its way to quick for a road car... totally not needed... But I f***ing love it... its stupid when you overtake... god knows what it must be like to get overtaken by me... hehehehe...
In the wet you have to respect it... and I won't ever take it out in the snow...

Playsatan

iTrader: (2)

I can see what you're saying Graham but it can be done for less. Everything that I've done (all of the above btw bar the gearbox) I've done on a budget and sold all of my oe parts to bring the cost down.

I guess it also depends on your starting point as I already had a few goodies to start out with.

Scoobyslammed - 500-550 bhp is just about right for a road car IMO. You know it makes sense.

Lateral Performance

iTrader: (20)

Colin,

Can you still get the EJ22T engines ?



Mark.

Playsatan

iTrader: (2)

I had a contact in the states that had a bunch of them in a warehouse, all brand new. I must warn you that it was almost a year ago and a LOT of people contacted me for their details when I said I could get them.

Only took a few days on the internet to find them at a decent price TBH, you know what I'm like after all.

You want the link?

Lateral Performance

iTrader: (20)

Sure

But you've also answered another point, and that's you're basing your pricing on a product you bought a year ago, and that even then had been become obsolete.

Trying to do the same things now, isn't quite so easy.


Mark.

Scoobyslammed

The less EJ22t blocks that are left the better... mine can only increase in value... lol
I struggled to get one... but with the help of playsatan... I got one for just under 1K if I remember right...? Then it was sent to Ron @ AXIS for him to work his magic...££££

Playsatan- 500-550bhp is about right for a road car... lol You only use yours at weekend don't you???
They do become alittle on the thirsty side when you start hitting the big bhp... lol

Scoobyslammed

I got mine from here... not sure if they've got anymore now... I got the link off Playsatan...:-

SubaruWRXparts.com: Quality OEM and aftermarket parts for your Subaru Impreza, Legacy, and Forester.

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

i think you will have to be right place right time to even get the 2nd hand parts fro a twisted turbo at £1.5K and i dont even think it can still be done for £1500 ??? there is a lot of money in a twisted setup, more cash than i thought it would be

Playsatan

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, thats the place.

I appreciate what you're saying abou the timescales too Mark but you also have to consider the exchange rates. When I bought mine GBP-USD was 1:1.67. It's a bit better than that these days.

I should also point out that the £2700 also included a set or arp's and a set of cometic head gaskets too.

911

Bouncing costs about is always interesting. Take your point on the twisted route, and my 'spare' £1000 was there for such adventures.

I bought several parts to my tweeked V3 with a mind to 2.2 (20g/550cc inj/FMIC Apexi etc) but then everyone revealed the secrets to a 2.35, so the 20g is left a bit wanting....

Interesting!

Graham

Playsatan

iTrader: (2)

I'd be more worried about the 550's mate.

To my mind the 2.33 option would be hillclimb nirvana what with the torque/revs combo. I suspect you've already made up your mind if you're being honest with yourself.

Scoobyslammed

This is the break down of the costs I had PM'ed to me from Playsatan...

This is the the breakdown in USD from Ron...
Modified crank $800
Rods $675
Pistons $550
Rod bearings $50
Main bearings $175
ARP studs $175
Cometic gaskets $110
Shipping to the UK $350 (door to airport) If you want door to door, add $50

I think the exchange rate was roughly 1 : 1.74 but you can work out the today prices easily.

the block itself was just over £1k, £1.8k for the work, parts, shipping and taxes so £2.8k all in. It sounds a lot when you say it like that but price it up in dear old blighty and the cheapest I could find was £5k plus the vat. That and the fact I sold my old engine bring the cost down to nearly £2k and I sold the crank, rods etc which brought the total cost (includient that gaskets, arp's, shipping and taxes) to just under £1900.

An absolute bargain in my books.


That is the exact PM I was sent... which sold it to me...

Mine cost me:-

£1K for cdb...

£2.4K for work done by Ron... rods, pistons, arp, head gaskets, other gaskets, water pump etc...

£900 quid to RCM for plugs, oil, filter, heat wrap, oil pump, sealer, more gaskets that wern't available from the USA etc etc...

£100 APi baffled sump... can't remember how much...

£200 FMIC...

£250 Heads freshend up...

2k... Turbo, injectors, inj adapters, inlet pipe, inlet spacers...

£400 Headers, up-pipe...

£100 Cossie fpr

Thats £7300.00 and I didn't need to change the ECU...
With other little bits and bobs... bet my total was over £8K and and this was put together by my sister's boyfriend and myself...


All the little bits add up very quick... I've had to fit new sensors, air temp sensor fitted to fmic pipework... new pulley idlers, tensioners, water pipes, boost solenoid...

I didn't really wanna work this out... DOH!!!
My build owes me ££££... but I've still saved myself ££££ in labour... for taking engine out, putting it back in... fitting this and that... its the time that goes into a build like this which costs and if its not done right you'll be we'll pee'd off... thats why I've replaced everything...

My engine took a few weekends to build it up before I dropped it in... and then theres the ball ache of everything turning up in dribs and drabs... something always goes wrong...
But all is well in the end... and I can say I've done it... or alot more than most would dare do...

Scoobyslammed

Oops... forgot... I did sell the standard 2 litre block... with the uprated pistons and rods... which wanted a re hone, crank and bearings minimum...

I sold my VF34
Sold the standard EJ22t pistons, rods and crank
Ver 4 top mount intercooler

It all helped towards the re-build...
Even made 1K on my run-arounds ( 2X accident damaged Corsas ) I had while the car was off the road...