mark6

hi all,i had my my01 wrx bugeye re-mapped a couple of months ago and its fairly standard apart from full de-cat,panel filter and samco hoses for intercooler/turbo,pfr7 plugs and pro s 15/50 oil/filter all done just before the remap.
The car has just done 30,000 miles and an oldish guy had it before me and did 22500 of those miles and car was mapped at abot 28500 miles .the problem is it seem's to be detting,i don't know if its been doing it long but i heard it the other day when i was just coming of throttle a little bit at about 4500rpm going through some sweeping corners,it doesn't always do it so i think that eliminates anything mechanical its just after a few minutes of spirited driving,i'm sure its knock as it sounds like a fast tappety noise from the engine but i haven't got a knock link as i really didn't want all the lights ect in the car,when i asked the mapper his opinion he said it was normally not a problem on a standardish car when properly mapped,its only when running a more tuned car when things can go wrong more a knock link is more advisable.

So my question is,is it a map tweak i need to cure this if it is det and what is more likely to be the cause of this det, is it possible something like lambda sensor or faulty spark plug?,at first i though it may be the warm weather as i know this can affect turbo cars alot,i have been driving it more steady in these warmer days but it seemed to do it the other night when it was a cooler night,i've refilled up with optimax to eliminate bad fuel as this is what it was mapped for but that didn't seem to change anything,i'm sorting out a knock link now as this is worrying and am trying to find some octane booster to see if thats cures the sound.i was wondering if air temp was normally the main factor of det as i'm now thinking of going for an sti intercooler if this will help,when it was mapped power went from 209bhp to 271.3bhp and torque ended up at about 250lb/ft.car was mapped about 1500 miles ago and never tracked and no cels.

any advise anyone before i contact the garage who mapped car?.

Mark_S

My guess is that either the car has not been mapped safely or that you have a failing maf since you say that you are using the correct grade of fuel. Remember if the car was mapped for 98 RON then you must use 98 RON or better.

Personally I would put a new maf in, its a 5 minute job. If it still knocks then take the car to a "reputable" mapper such as Bob Rawle, from my own experience I would not rely on a main dealer to fix your problem. And dont rag the car until the problem is resolved!!!!!

Finally, fit a Knocklink, they hardly light up at all unless on full boost. You dont say where you live but Xtreme in Essex do a very neat install if you dont want to do it yourself, very inobtrusive! Could save a very expensive engine build.

All IMHO.

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

Mark

There's lots of tuning potential for the bugeye WRX but the small topmount intercooler would be hard pressed to cool the air for anything above 260 BHP !!

I'm not sure if it's det as "coming off throttle" at 4500 would not be a good candidate for Det AFAIK.

I'd have a word with the mapper and take it from there

Midlife.....

ex-webby

As said above, "coming off throttle" ????

Most people wouldnt know DET (and dont take this as a dig), if it blasted in there ears at 150db!!! If your unsure, take it to somewhere that has DET CANS or is experienced in these matters and get it checked.

Regards,
Shaun.

mark6

Cheers for the replies guys,i'm gonna take it back in a couple of weeks on my week off and see what they say,like i say i'm not 100% sure it is det but its a very strange noise and only does it on boost after a while of spirited driving.i'm not blaming the mapper as it could be something else,regarding the maf sensor, i though they where quite reliable on the newage and heard they where about £450 on the newage as well,as i was gonna change it when i first bought the car.

Bob Rawle

Maf is far more reliable, if you do need one drop me a mail as I have them at same price as the MY99-00 as the cartridge only.

bob

Mark_S

Mark, in the meantime I would drive the car sympathetically, if the noise is occuring on boost as you are now saying then it may possibly be det. These engines can easily be damaged if everything is not well, as a mate of mine has found to his own cost!

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

Mark 6

I was just about to say that the newage MAF can now be bought separately without the need to buy half the black plastic induction as I have seen them in a neat line on a shelf in Bob Rawle's garage


and then Bob beat me to it ...........LOL

Shaun

dieard

when all done, make sure you reset the ecu, will drive better and learn back the paremteresm

mark6

Thanks for the replies and just to update on this,i put some pro-boost in and it cured the noise it was making so that to me confirms it is det,unless anyone say's otherwise??.

Also,does anyone know that if it was the maf that was causing the det,would the car still run better than its ever done with pro-boost in?.

i put the whole 1ltr tin in as it recommended a 2% mixture and the car run excellent,don't get me wrong the car was running fine before it's just the smoothness of the revs and the way the car pulled through the gears was so much more noticable with the pro-boost in,but at £10 a tin i aren't gonna keep putting this in every fill up so i'm trying to find if the cause is the warmer weather before i run it back up to scoobyclinic.

As it stands if i take it to scoobyclinic as it is i'm thinking if there is nothing wrong with the car they'll just back off the map so i will lose power,i'm thinking if it is the warm weather causing the det and nothing else then i'm better off getting hold of a second hand sti intercooler to pop on,so when i take it back to the clinic they can tweak the map to take advantage of the better cooling,but if it isn't the charge temps causing the det,what else could it be?

i've just got hold of some millers octane plus and put a bottle of this in a tank full but it seem's it's still knocking ever so lightly and to be honest it's not that warm at the moment,so if it isn't maf or warmer time of year causing the det what are the other common causes of det??.

BVM

You need a Scanmaster 3! Then you see everything your ECU does.

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

BVM

I like the look of your twin gauge dash binnicle (ebay..?). whats the finnish/fit like..?

BVM

Nah, I dont like no name ebay parts. This is the original Autometer part. Fits very well but its a bit too shiney. Needs more of a matte finish.

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

Where did you get it..? Have you tried anything to 'dull' the finnish (i.e. cleaning wax)..?

mark6

???? erm,i might see everything the ecu does with a scanmaster,but it's not gonna cure anything is it,i'm not keen on having all the lights n bells n whistle's in the car,i just want a car to drive and have fun,obviously i'm gonna get a knocklink now just to keep an eye on det but it still isn't gonna tell me the problem.

BVM

I picked up some 00 steel wool, gonna give that a try and see what happens. I have 2 of the guage clusters. Figure I'll try on the old one first.

BVM

I guess if your willing to spend nearly the same money and only be able to monitor knock. But why?

Here is the data sheet on the SM3

The Scanmaster 3 is a portable scan tool for monitoring data that is retrieved from the ECU (Engine Control Unit) The unit is intended to be permanently mounted so that it is always available for monitoring the state of tune of the engine.
Special Features: The Scanmaster 3 has many advanced features that set it apart from the competition.
Priority Scan™:: The Scanmaster retrieves data from the ECU as fast as the ECU can send it, however some data is more critical since it changes rapidly (e.g. O2 voltage) and is scanned more often. There are many data items that change slowly, but are very important to monitor (coolant temperature, trim values) and can be scanned less often. The Scanmaster Priority Scan™ handles this and provides large amounts of data without sacrificing the update speed of the critical data. We also use the faster Subaru specific protocall not standard OBD2 like other no specific tools. This also alllows us to display non standare data fields like Knock Correction.

Serial output: The Scanmaster 3 provides a serial port for logging data to a PDA or laptop PC. The output is at high baud rate so the datalogger will never miss any data. We include exclusive WRXd open source palm application designed for this purpose.

Analog inputs: On the rear of the unit is a 3.5mm jack for connecting two 0-5 volt external signals. These signals can be displayed on the Scanmaster as well as logged to a PDA/PC. If a wideband Air/Fuel signal is connected, the Scanmaster 3 can be configured to display that Air/Fuel ratio as the default display. The analog data can be displayed as boost (2 bar, 2.5 bar, 3 bar) and Air/Fuel ratio.

Vehicle speed: The Scanmaster 3 reads the vehicle speed sensor and calculates vehicle speed, acceleration, and performance from the data. Including 0-60, 1/4 mile time and speed, Acceleration in G. If the vehicle speed input is not connected (orange wire) the Scanmaster will use the speed data available thru the OBD-II connection.

PeakCapture: At WOT the maximum acceleration value and RPM at that point, as well as peak boost pressure are saved. To recall these values, press and hold the RECALL button, and the saved values will be displayed (Decimal6 will blink), while holding the RECALL button, press the MODE button to step thru the saved peak values that were captured. When the unit powers up, it is operating in default mode. This mode displays the O2 sensor Air/Fuel Ratio on the left side of the display, and the knock correction value on the right side. After a full throttle run, pressing the recall button will display the highest acceleration value, pressing the MODE button will step thru the other peak values: RPM @ peak accel, and the highest boost pressure. Peak capture is enabled by high throttle.

Expanded modes
- bSt = Boost pressure (psi)
- SP = Spark Advance, degrees.
- *AD1 = Analog 1 from J1 See config
- *AD2 = Analog 2 from J1 See config
- St = Short Term air/fuel learning.
- Lt = Long term air/fuel learning.
- AF = Engine Airflow, in Grams/sec (engine airflow sensor)
- r = Engine RPM
- in = Injector Pulsewidth, in Milliseconds.
- idc = Injector dutycycle, a measure of injector flow, 0-100%
- TPS = Throttle Position Sensor, percent.
- MPH = Vehicle speed,
- Acc = Acceleration (Scaled +2.55/-.99 G)
- *Et = 0-60 or QuarterMile Elapsed Time 0-19.99 sec
- CLt = Coolant Temperature, degrees F
- BAt = Battery Voltage
- AtS = Air Temperature, this sensor is located in the airflow sensor
- EGt = Exhaust Gas Temp. (Degrees F * 1000, 1.27 = 1270°)



External Logging: The Scanmaster has an RS232 port on the rear panel to connect to a PC or PDA to allow external logging. WRXd is included with the Scanmaster for PALM OS PDA's. The included cables and connectors allow connection to the PDA serial sync cable. WRXd uses a high baudrate to ensure no data is missed.

mark6

it does seem a good buy but what i'm saying is that i need to find the cure of my det,which this device isn't going to do.As i'm getting det, which i wasn't expecting after what the mapper told me ,i'm now going to buy a knocklink to monitor it but now you've told me about the scanmaster it does seem the better value for money item,But i think it relies on the original knock sensor which is known for not picking it up,as i'm getting knock now but the ecu isn't doing or not doing enough to correct it.

BVM

After re-reading your original post I see that your car was mapped when it was much cooler. I bet you have too much spark advance. Have you called the mapper to have him readjust your map? I had a minor problem after mine and called Patrick at ScoobyClinic. Met up with him a few days later and he fixed it. I was having a minor bit of det once it warmed up but he pulled a few degrees out of the spark advance and all is good now. No charge of course. The reason I suggested the SM3 is that you can actually data log and send a copy of it to your mapper... then he would know pretty much where the problem is.

mark6

i have spoke to adam on the phone,and he said to book it in some time when i can get down,i haven't got a knocklink yet and didn't fancy driving the 150 mile trip down without being able to check det is not knacking my engine up.

i also mentioned i was gonna try and get hold of an sti intercooler to make it worthwhile the journey for the tweak of the map,when you had your timing retarded did you notice much loss of performace??,as thats why i was gonna get a bigger intercooler,it seems a shame to have to lose some power after enjoying the re-map so much.

BVM

No, I didnt notice any difference other than I didnt get anymore det. You see the Mapper will dial in a set amount of spark advance. If its set too high the ECM may not be able to compensate if it detects knock. If there is more room for additional advance, the ECM will dial it in automatically. Or atleast thats how it was explained to me. The Newage ECM is suppose to be able to adjust plus or minus 20%.

mark6

if thats the case then, maybe my O.E knock sensor is faulty as it should be retarding the spark,i think i may just run it up to scoobyclinic without the new intercooler as my main concern was having a slower car afterwards,also can you purchase the scanmaster from the UK? as i have only seen it on US sites.

BVM

Dont think you can. I can supply them though.

Bob Rawle

"the newage is supposed to adjust plus/minus 20%"

Not acccurate, it adjusts as much or as little as the compensation map allows, plus minus fine learing and knock retard. With 10 deg in the comp map at a 20 deg base thats 50% total iyswim.

It will retard in a flash but advance very slowly. If ign is set to high it will retard but if the revs are rising too quickly it won't have seen enough drive cycles to react. The ecu cannot dial in any more than base plus compensation which is factored by the AM. From that everything can only go down.

bob

BVM

"Or atleast thats how it was explained to me" I knew ScoobyClinic was full of crap.