RR

Currently running a IHI vf34 but i want more power and i dont mind a little more lag. 425-450bhp would be nice but i just aint sure what would provide this power and be a direct swap onto my current manifold/ Downpipe setup. Any suggestions. Thanks in advance.

P.S I guess a vf22 may be a direct swap but is it capable of 425-450bhp and how laggy is it?.

Delboy2

The VF22 isn't capable of no where near the target you want - the most probable direct 'bolt on' replacement to get you near that target would be a TD05/06-20G or a TD06 (The latter is better suited to the 2.5) which should see you around the 400+ mark (fuel and mod dependant)

Cheers

StickyMicky

does the vf34 use the p20 houseing?
if not, what is its approx power rating with one fitted?

RR

Its currently a .18 housing. I have heard a .20 housing will see another 15- 20bhp on top of the .18 housing. I thought a TD05/06-20G was a 380bhp turbo but it could stretch to about the 405bhp area mod and dependent on the rollers it went on. Which is capable of the most power Td05/06 or a vf22?. TD05/06-20G sounds like an option if its a straight swap. I really thought the vf22 and TD05/06-20G were in the same area roughly power wise. How do the 2 turbos compare spool time wise and peak power as long as they can go onto the same manifold cost is not an issue.

StickyMicky

i think the vf22 is the same as the 16g`s until the very top end where the td05 has the edge

the vf22`s seam to explode quite easily, mine went after i changed gear on a pretty much standerd wrx
which was nice

RR

Cheers Micky looks like the TD05/06 20g is the way forward then. I know Martin got just over 400bhp at Well Lane recently on a TD05/06 20G i believe recently.

StickyMicky

yes he did!
although i thought his was an 18g??

i belive 911 managed about 400 as well on one of his runs? which i think is a 20g

StickyMicky

im thinking of a vf34 as my next choice of turbo

i have a p20 houseing available, not sure if the 15bhp gain is worth the loss of midrange tho

choices, choices..............

RR

I have seen actual data logging direct (from the ecu via vag-com) from a vag 1.8T engine real time logging of a IHI vf34 .18 housing Vs a IHI vf34 .20 housing. Spool up time was identical more or less the diff was negliable. But the .20 flowed 15-20bhp more at the top end 5k+ rpm. The .20 is a worthwhile investment i reckon. Mod for mod my car made 343bhp on jabbas rollers, a .20 housing on an otherwise identical setup made 361bhp. 18bhp gain top end. I will search for the ecu data so u can take a look.

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/show...&highlight=.20

Logging shows no tail off in performance higher up but spool up looks similar.
Page 29 half way down i think.

StickyMicky

it does look pretty simmiler until the top end
more choices ....

RR

The vf34 aint a bad turbo at all. I made 327bhp at Well Lane a few weeks ago. I forgot to tell barry the car revs to 7.5k rpm so he only went to 6100rpm and stopped (my fault i should have told him). Every where else its made peak power between 6450rpm and 7000rpm. There was prob another 10-15bhp to come if revved to 7k rpm.

Ninnybobs

Mickey was quite correct, mine now has a TD05 18g. Spool-up is almost identical to the 16g but was worth another 35bhp

Cheers

martin

Hattori Hanzo

Check out power enterprise turbos. PE1818 will give you a little more power then Vf34 with almost same amount of lag. PE1820 will give you even more power with a little more lag (full boost around 4000+rpm). They are expensive but worth it IMO firstly because they are bolt on, secondly they are still proven IHI turbos with ball bearing. Oh and if you want even more power there is PE1825.

RR

cheers Guys.

BVM

IHI turbos are ok but if you break them, they are worthless. Mitsubishi turbos are FAR better because they are rebuildable and easily upgraded.

For your viewing pleasure.
http://www.boostplanet.com/product.htm (Zilla)

http://linux.forcedperformance.net/m...Code=WRX-Turbo (FPgreen!)

and if you are really nuts!
http://www.kingpinperformance.com/ (GT35R)

john banks

RR, I have a GT30R/P20 hybrid (so Subaru bolt on as I gather your Ibiza is modified for with your plumbing) for sale £750 if the compressor housing will fit in the space you have.... turbo is rated for 450 BHP, Harvey got 585 BHP out of his on race gas at Well Lane though. johnbanks@dsl.pipex.com

RR

Cheers John, i am just weighing all the options up at the moment.

Rollers

This pe1818 is interesting,will it be better than a vf34 with a 20 housing though?

BVM

You'd be happier with the Mitsu 18g or 20g over any IHI turbo.

john banks

425-450 is a bit (c.50 BHP) optimistic for a TD05H turbine wheel on Optimax at least on a Scooby though. It is wildly optimistic on a VF or the VF hybrids that still use the VF turbine wheel.

Rollers

I have forged internals and i'm looking for a quick spooling turbo that can produce a max of 390/400bhp that is a direct bolt-on.Which one?pe1818?

john banks

I'd choose a 20G for that, only issue is if you have forged internals and want to run really high boost to get a midrange hit it might surge.

PE1818 is not up to the job IMHO, still uses VF turbine wheel which is dinky and restrictive.

BVM

You may want to consider the forced performance 18g. My friend Jeff has the FP18g on his '03 WRX and gets 18psi by 3,300rpm.
And John is right, even though the PE1818 is a hybrid, it still cant flow the big numbers because of the small IHI housing. You need either a Mitsu 18/20g or Garrett GT series turbo.

Rollers

What is the max a pe1818 can produce(crank hp)?
What is the most a vf34 with 20 housing can produce?
Who sells the 20g?

john banks

The IHI P20 housing is actually quite competent, can do about 450 BHP on Optimax at least, but that is with a Garrett turbine wheel/CHRA. The IHI turbine wheel is the problem.

In terms of figures for VF34 or PE1818, it depends a lot on rolling roads, the differences between rollers can be the difference between one class of turbo, and another say two steps up... I personally think the VF34 is OK for up to about 340 BHP, but a lot of setups with more mundane breathing will be 20 BHP short of this, P20 swap seems to only make 10 BHP or so difference on other turbos - it isn't really the bottleneck. MD304/PE1818 types are probably similar again.

AndyF or Zen performance do 20G turbos - they are both Deadbolt dealers.

I think the Mitsubishi TD05H-16/18/20G can do almost do no wrong in the 340-400 BHP range You can get quite second rate response with some VF hybrids, but some people love them.

Rollers

So in your opinion it's not worth the expense for a pe1818f over a vf34 with 20 housing?The pe1818 does have alot bigger compressor exducer/inducer than the vf34 what difference does this make?
I really don't won't bad response(ie lag) so it looks like i'm sticking with the vf34/20.

john banks

Running an unbalanced (excessively compressor heavy) hybrid is like being constipated and going for what appears to be a free lunch

The power limit (and the major influence on spool up) is the turbine wheel, and is too often overlooked.

Rollers

So Power Enterprise go it wrong then,or did they bring it out before the vf34 was introduced?

BVM

Hey Rollers, am I gonna have to beat you over the head with a 18g to get you to leave those silly IHI's alone?
Let me put it to you this way. IHI you can get alot of turbo for the money. BUT! If you break it, it becomes a paper weight. If you want to upgrade to a larger turbo, you have to buy another one.
Mitsu turbos can be upgraded and rebuilt. If you start out with a 16g you can go all the way to a 20g! They may cost a bit more up front but they flow better, spool faster and are just an all around better turbo.

Case in point: (cars and mods have changed quite a bit since this happened)
My friend Jeff has a '03 WRX with VF30, Perrin FMIC, TurboXS TBE, and Utec EM.
My '02 WRX helix up-pipe and MBC would SMOKE it from a dig till 3rd gear. Once we hit 3rd he ran right by me. From a slow roll I would beat up on him even harder.

Now Jeff has the FP18g, Water injection and Hydra EMS and he claims his car is twice as fast with full boost by 3,300 rpm and is pushing 400hp. I was going to upgrade to a VF30 till I drove his car and saw just how bad the lag was. Now he even has me rethinking my super 16g purchase. Now, I am thinking 18g!
Hope this helps.

Steven

john banks

Rollers, with what I've driven and tested, I really wouldn't bother hybridizing a VF turbo full stop. Throw it all away apart from the P20 housing IMHO - just fit an off the shelf VF (if you must, some are OK, I like the VF35 as a TD04 replacement) or TD, or a TD hybrid, or a Garrett/P20 or full rotated custom up/downpipes Garrett. Some people love their VF hybrids though as I said.