Steve25

I have been running various Imprezas over the last ten years and have always
done my best to avoid using fuel from supermarkets. The times I have been
forced to through lack of local knowledge of Shell station locations I have worried about the possible damage I could do to the car. Even though the ron numbers on the pumps seem familiar it feels like the car does'nt run quite as well. What is going on?

kbsub

http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthread.php?t=386962


read my comments at the end of the thread

Steve25

read my comments at the end of the thread
Are you satisfied ther is no difference then?

kbsub

damn right ,, many a time i have been loading the stuff and they would be a Asda or Sainsbury tanker either side of me , all loading the same petrol !!
where do think the supermarkets get it from ??
I worked for Total for 11 years as a tanker driver and all the big oil companies just swap with each other at different locations around the country, its all made to a british standard (the number is on the pump ) thats why there is no problem swapping brand names

HomerJunior

iTrader: (1)

Can back up kbsub. I went for an interview with Esso a few years ago and during the induction we had the head of production give us a talk. He said exactly the same as kbsub, that Esso petrol may only cover the North of England, Shell the middle and BP the South. May not be exactly right but that was the general gist. The big companies buy other refiners fuel and sell it as their own. It is done to encourage competition and stop the government coming down on them for running a cartel!

You should be able to buy petrol from any supermarket but if you get readings on your knocklink then try another pump nearby and you should find the results more than satisfactory!

st3ph3n

So optimax, the petrol "developed with Ferrari" is a lot nonsense?

They don't take the regular 98 ron from the refinery and add stuff to it?

My local petrol station is a safeway, and it doesn't do any sort of premium, just the regular 94 stuff. But if I see a shell then I know I can get 98 stuff.

kbsub

Developed with Ferrari my ar$e !

No such thing as regular 98 ron , Its probably 97 (super) with the additive making it 98 ( personally i woudn't buy a box of matches of Shell )

pick a garage that does cheap super an use that , just as good as anything else out there ( because its the same as anything thing else out there )

unless your Scoob needs the 98 , you are wasting your money

Dark Blue Mark

Er, I think you may not be quite right on that one.

There are many on here, myself included who have seen the benefits of Optimax over normal SUL. Ask one of the tuning guru's from here who map cars There's no way its the same as 95 or even 97 RON.

Agreed a lot of them do use the same fuel, but there are different grades and additives. I have also spoken to the refinery people and have a different story...

MB

Dark Blue Mark

And its not a waste of money. The standard Subaru ECU has active knock control and will adjust the ignition timing (to a degree) to cope for varying fuel quality. Worse the fuel, less performance.

I always ran mine on Optimax and once got caught out and had to use 95 Ron. Within a couple of minutes the CEL light was on, as it was detting, and went into limited boost / limp mode until it adjusted or I put better fuel in.

Best check before you disregard things as a waste of time!

MB

kbsub

if you read my post correctly i said ........


" Unless your car needs 98 ron you are wasting your money "


All UK Subaru's do not need 98 ron , Subaru dont even recommend 97 !
Unless you know better than Subaru ?

There are also plenty of threads saying optimax makes no difference to other fuels
these owners have probably got unmodded UK cars
you probably have not


" waste of time! "

can't recall saying this either

Dark Blue Mark

Exactly my point though, a UK scoob doesn't need 98 RON but will see the benefits of it, so its not a waste of time. Agreed its more of a gain if its modded though.

There are a few who's car's have not liked using Optimax but I suspect a sensor fault somewhere...

(Misread the waste of time bit, but its the same as saying waste of money in this example)

Mine was unmodded at the time of the example above.

MB

kbsub

Well thats what I originally said !!


"unless your Scoob NEEDS the 98 , you are wasting your money "

Jamescsti

I drive an import STi, and after recently using BP Super i have established my scooby needs Optimax!
I filled up with BP Ultimate as I was in an unknown area and it was all I could find I used the usual bottle of Millers octane booster and from cold my car was idleing really rough, nearly stalling.
I have since filled up with Optimax and a bottle of Millers and it's running sweet again!

No more BP for me!

kbsub

keyword here is IMPORT

ozzy

OK, so Supermarkets receive fuel from mainline refineries - BP, Esso, Shell ??

I assume all mainline Petrol Stations are just franchises, so what's the quality control like at the petrol station itself. Who dictates how often the tanks are cleaned and to what quality?

It was interesting when my uncle in the Czech Republic said even over there, the 95 ron stuff isn't always that. It's been left too long, mixed with something else or contaminted with water coz the tanks aren't cleaned or maintained well.

Stefan

kbsub

Supermarket tanker drivers load the petrol at the refinerys or loading terminals , depends whereabouts in the country they are as to which oil companies they us .

some stations are franchise , but most are owned by the oil company , as they have realised there is money to be made on the "shop stock " i.e.
groceries etc etc , infact when i started in the industry the saying was they made more money on a loaf of bread than a gallon of petrol !
probably more true today

as for tank cleaning ... i have never known this to happen to the newer sites , the turnover of stock is to great for this to be needed , one site in Burnley i used to go to received 10 loads a week , this equates to 300.000 - 360.000 litres of fuel a week !!

Kevin

Dark Blue Mark

Kevin, you said "unless your scoob needs 98 then you are wasting your money"

Does a UK scoob NEED 98? No
Will 98 give you increased performance? Probably Yes
Is it therefore a waste of money if it doesn't "NEED" it? No

Thats not what you are saying though!

Ozzy, I will check on this but I believe a lot of the storage tanks have duplex filter style fitration which means you dont really need to clean your tank out. Same theory as your fuel tank, not often cleaned! Is that your experience Kevin? Guess they have to conform to API too?

James, I have the same situation now that if I use BP Ultimate with OB, I get a lot of red on the knocklink. Optimax and booster is much much less activity. Imports are more sensitive and mapped for 100 plus (as you know) but its almost a like for like comparisson with or without octane booster.

MB

kbsub

Does a UK scoob NEED 98? No
Will 98 give you increased performance? Probably Yes
Is it therefore a waste of money if it doesn't "NEED" it? No




sorry "probably" aint good enough for a 8 or 9 p a litre price hike
mine runs great on 97 ron so for me , optimax = " a waste of money "

no idea about tank filtration so can't comment

Dark Blue Mark

I put "probably" as many would pick holes if I said definately. What I definately know if the difference I see in knock from 97ron to Optimax....

Didn't know it was 8-9p more than SUL though Never really looked TBH

That's good enough evidence for me to know that:
a) Its not the same as other fuels
b) My engine is healthier for it which means that:
c) Its worth it and not a waste of money



MB

chris's scooby

I would think that if an import has been remapped to run on either Optimax or Optimax and a bottle of Millers, you will notice the difference if you use another fuel as Optimax is additives added to unleaded. On a UK car most SUL's seem fine.

kbsub

Think my original point was many scoob owners buy optimax without needing the 98 ron , some say its runs better , some can't tell the difference , either way it isn't really needed on uk scoobs that were made to run on normal ul , which is what Subaru recommend , unless PPP'd then Prodrive recommend sul , but nobody recommends optimax (apart from lads on SN !)


Dont forget there are thousands of scoob owners who never come on SN and just use normal U/L and drive thousands of miles without problems

Plus I am anti Shell anyway after the "formula shell " fiasco in the mid eighties, that stuff killed a lot of engines

I paid 81.9 last tank of Sainsbury super unleaded , Think optimax is around the 90p a litre mark round here , over a year thats a lot a dosh to tightfisted yorkshire man !

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Mark is not saying that a UK car 'needs' optimax. You don't 'need' to have a Subaru do you? If his car runs better on the stuff, as does mine and many other users on here, it makes sense to buy it. What you are saying is that you willbuy the cheapest fuel around for your performance motor. Not everyone thinks like that.

kbsub

Please re read the posts , cos i am sick of repeating myself

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

'thats a lot a dosh to tightfisted yorkshire man ! '

Sorry, I understand now!

Abbylad

iTrader: (4)

Mine`s a UK subaru and none other than SUBARU recommend that i use super in mine, so that`s (none other than) SUBARU recommending 97RON............correct?!?!?!?!? Give yerself an upper-cut

Ab

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

And also nearly every tuning company I know recommend a minimum of super but preferably optimax. Guess they all have shares in shell, or they don't know their pistons from their throttle bodies!
I love these 'optimax is a waste of money' threads. The sort of people who say this usually turn out to be the people who say its ok to use cheap engine oil, tyres etc.

Dark Blue Mark

Yes there have been a number of anti Shell, (or Optimax specifically) threads of late. I actually work for a big rival and will only buy Shell.

Also a number of threads with people dismissing things as "techie crap" (not saying you are KSub) Thing is that what applies to one car, quite often doesn't apply to an Impreza. There are loads of little vital points that mean you can't dismiss things as techie ****e!

KSub, I was only chatting about the formula Shell thing the other day. Believe they admitted liability in the end?

MB

555wrx

I dont use supermarket fuel as when I used to fill up my old f#rd at T###o ( no name dropping) it would pink like a bugger. Once refuelled on a 'brand' name fuel, it would stop acting up.
In my eyes, if an old knacker can suffer, what damage would a performance car like a scooby suffer?
Thats just my observation on the matter.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I get 15bhp extra on Opitmax...oh wow!!
Otherwise bugger all difference. Rather save a few quid and use it to buy decent tyres.

The only car I have to run it on is an XJS, which was orginally designed and tuned for 4star Leaded. It pinks on 95 NUL, a simple ignition timing adjustment would probably sort it, but with the compexities of the a Jags ignition system, there is too much blind faith that one of 12 cylinder will not pink or missfire. And the Shell garage happens to be the nearest petrol station, so optimax it is

Oh a guess who had a petrol tank of water when filling with said optimax? To me, it's no better than any other brand - especially when most come from the very same refinary, so it's down to the actual petrol station itself to maintain and clean its tanks and filters.

Your more likely to cause running problems by keep swapping fuels to "see" a difference

As for tuners recommneding it? Well many also recommend ATM dumpvalves on scoobs. Which there is known problems, yet they still sell them, even though the standard OE one is usually up to the job unless you running silly boost levels.

Bottom line is, if it's mapped for the fuel it will work fine. The only benefit I can see optimax on a UK car is by having the ECU remapped to take more advantage of it. The standard UK map, even though it's dynamic it always works on the side of safety (unless your maf sensor gets lazy in which case it's holy pistons for you on any fuel ). The ECU doesn't take full advantage of the fuel - unlike the PPP or remapped ECU's or JDM cars which should be remapped for the UK anyway (IMO ).

l3wyy

Hi Everyone,

Just to let you know into a little secret about supermarkets. I work for quite a large company beginning with T - you know the one.

About 99% of all supermarkets offer petrol stations as a way of trying to get you to shop in the main store. Please believe me when I say this and this is the truth (well as far as the one I work for). We actually make a loss on Petrol.





So I hear - Why don't they increase the price to reduce the loss?

People will not go to the petrol station and think that they need a box of tea bags etc and therefore will not shop in the store.





So - Why don't you make the price cheaper to get people in?

We make a loss already, more will effect us.





Where do you buy your petrol from?

Main refineries, we’re not licensed or do we own a refinery therefore we can not produce the goods.

Where do I buy my petrol? It begins with S and ends with ainsbury - ssshhhhH!



Every Little Helps!