*Sonic*

Any ideas ?

Any easy way of checking

Took my car on the RR on Sunday, and it was running a bit on the rich side

MY00 PPP Ecu & Full Decat

AFR's are fine, as is boost, oil pressure etc

I have noticed the fuel consumption has increased slightly, but only by a bit

Steve

vulnax999

iTrader: (7)

Too much fuel?

*Sonic*

LOL, yeah which then leads to no fuel left

Could be std reg on its way out, but could do with some way of checking

vulnax999

iTrader: (7)

Have you seen this on the Delta Dash? Or just sooty exhaust ( my way! ), or AFR? My AFR shows 2nd green on load/boost/throttle ( it's using ecu map ), stoich on cruise (ecu Map or MAf closed loop used?) , lean/off when off throttle (MAF closed loop / emission saver)( correct AFR response modes there).

Maybe your lambda is shot? Was it a Halfords special or original Scooby? John WRX's new AFR showed full rich IYR on Thursday, likely a shot lambda failing to 1 v.

Ditto MAf, although don't they fail to lean?

Your Delta Dash should show these inputs for MAF, Lambda ??? so check they are OK against your usual values.

If your fuel reg was going, which way would it fail, or would it leak fuel??


A few things for you to try there... of course I could be completely wrong!

*Sonic*

Not had chance on DD just yet, will do it tomorrow night

My Lambda is a halfords special., Im still waiting for the guy to send me the OE one (that I bought from here, and he wont reply to PM's)

since the PPP, the AFR is one more notch towards the rich, ie number 3 led on WOT

Interesting you should mention the fuel leak, a few people in the last few days (read last week before the rollers) that my car smells like a petrol station

Steve

*Sonic*

Ok heres a delta dash log file for anyone interested

http://white-elephant.homeip.net/pics/logfile.csv

Steve

*Sonic*

Anyone ??

vulnax999

iTrader: (7)

Looks very nice.

Some obvious bits when you shift gear ... bit of KNOCK correction too :-)
And your 02 sensor volts are rather high, i.e. rich, so maybe Lambda is failing or something else is increasing fuel. Your feel that it is rich is right.
But otherwise nothing that to me ( and I don't know these things ) shows why it's rich!
Suggest you put on the old ECU for a few days and see if that cures it? Do another delta dash log.
Else splash out on Walbro and 1:1 fuel reg, you may need it with that new turbo! And the OEM Subaru Lambda sensor too.

*Sonic*

Yep knock correction isnt that out of the ordinary to be honest, but some of it could be noise from the fecked up-pipe

Yes the car is definatly using more fuel, im down from 280-300 miles a tank, to 240

I sent a cheque off for a Lambda & MAF, neither of which have arrived, and the guy wont reply to my PM's, but then my cheque hasnt been cashed, so he could just be away on holiday etc etc

im going to try the AE800, and see how the readings compare (and fuel consumption), and ill do the same with the AE802 too

Ill try a full tank on each ECU, and use the same stretch of road for the DD

Cheers for the reply Neil

vulnax999

iTrader: (7)

Hmmm MAF failures usually lean out AFAIK and BANG ... but yours is going rich. Might be MAF, worth a swap ... does my MY fit yours, got a spare one here you could try ( not tried it myself, off a MY96 ).

The blowing up-pipe would likely lead to more fuel consumption, don't know why, but was told my blowing uppipe pre headers would cost me loads in petrol! But that was a quickfit/tyre place so .... not sure

Do what you suggest, fill us all in on Thursday!

Neil

*Sonic*

I was going to say there is no way im going through two tanks of petrol before thursday, but then I noticed my diary bookings for work next week !!!

Your MAF wont fit my car, Ill nip to Halfords and get another cheap lambda to try, although im working tomorrow, so may not be back in time for closing

Turbo_Steve

Blowing exhaust at front will alllow more oxygen into the system prior to the lambda. This will cause the ECU to think it is running lean and richen the mixture....bang goes your fuel economy.

keevster

iTrader: (1)

A lambda sensor's normal life span is 30,000 to 50,000 miles. But the sensor may fail prematurely if it becomes clogged with carbon, or is contaminated by lead from leaded petrol or silicone from an antifreeze leak or from silicone sealer.

As the sensor ages, it becomes sluggish. Eventually it produces an unchanging signal or no signal at all. When this happens, the Check Engine Light may come on, and the engine may experience derivability problems caused by an overly rich fuel condition. Poor fuel economy, elevated CO and HC emissions, poor idle, and/or hesitation during acceleration are typical complaints.

If the average voltage from the lambda sensor is running high (more than 0.50V), it indicates a rich condition, possibly due to a bad MAP, MAF or Air Flow sensor or leaky injector. If the average voltage reading is running low (less than 0.45V), the mixture is running lean possibly due to a vacuum leak or because the sensor itself is bad.

If the lambda sensor continually reads high (rich), it will cause the engine computer to lean out the fuel mixture in an attempt to compensate for the rich reading. This can cause lean misfire, hesitation, stumbling, poor idle and high hydrocarbon emissions (from misfiring).

If the lambda sensor continually reads low (lean), it will cause the engine computer to richen the fuel mixture. Injector pulse width will increase causing fuel consumption and carbon monoxide emissions to go up. Constant rich fuel mixture can also cause the catalytic converter to overheat and it may be damaged.

If the lambda sensor's output is sluggish and does not change (low cross counts & long transition times), the engine computer will not be able to maintain a properly balanced fuel mixture. The engine may run too rich or too lean, depending on the operating conditions. This, in turn, may cause derivability problems such as misfiring, surging, poor idle, and high emissions.

If a heated sensor has a faulty heating circuit or element, the sensor can cool off at idle causing the system to go into open loop. This usually results in a fixed, rich fuel mixture that will increase emissions.

Sometimes an apparent lambda sensor problem is not really a faulty sensor. An air leak in the intake or exhaust manifold or even a fouled spark plug, for example, will cause the lambda sensor to give a false lean indication. The sensor reacts only to the presence or absence of oxygen in the exhaust. It has no way of knowing where the extra oxygen came from. So keep that in mind when diagnosing oxygen sensor problems.

The lambda sensor is also grounded through the exhaust manifold. If rust and corrosion of the manifold gaskets and bolts is creating resistance, it may affect the sensor's output. To rule out a bad ground, use a digital volt meter to check for a voltage drop between the sensor shell and the engine block. More than 0.1v can cause a problem.



Paul

RichieD

I hope the plod aren't looking at your log...! or were you testing on a private road?!

vulnax999

iTrader: (7)

ROFL

I refrained from that observation....

NotoriousREV

Equally, being that you've recently changed the headers, are you sure you're not blowing from there at all, which again will draw in air and confuse the sensor?

Also, I'm not sure how "Fuel Injection #1 Pulse Width (ms)" relates to duty cycle % but if you're pushing the injectors, maybe one is sticking open and throwing the juice in?

*Sonic*

Santa Pod drag strip

Dark Blue Mark

If its running rich on boost, it won't be the lambda.

MB

*Sonic*

thanks for the replies

Rev, the car has been running richer since before I put the headers on, now it *could* well be the up-pipe

When I took the headers off, I had every intention of taking the up-pipe off too, and putting the ported one on, but I couldnt get the last bolt undone (still with DP connected) so in the end time ran out, and I had to get the car back together again

Now whilst the headers were off, I kept moving the up-pipe around (as there was a lot of play, even with all 5 bolts done up tight at the turbo end, this is also where the heatshield has broke) I have probably made it worse by doing this to the up-pipe, but at the time I wasnt bothered, as it was supposed to be coming off and going in the bin

I may get some time tomorrow to change it

Is there any easy way to check the std fuel reg, and the injectors ?

*Sonic*

Right, have spent the day changing the up-pipe, and checking all bolts etc

Managed to do it without removing the downpipe or the intercooler

Re-checked the header bolts too, all sealed up nicely, took it out for a run, and did a quick delta dash log

Results are about the same, the only difference appears to be slightly less knock correction, and slightly better timing (although this is due to less knock correction, so doesnt have to pull back the timing as far)

Will know more after the next day or two with the work runs

CataIunya

42 degrees advance !!!!! is that including the static timing ?

*Sonic*

Yep, but I was slowing down at that point, I think my foot was off the throttle by then

SiHethers

Sonic

Your MAF looks a little tired to me. A peak voltage of 4.22V is probably a bit low even given this is only at c5800rpm. This is supported by the ignition timing and knock correction. However a failing MAF would give leaner fuelling, which wouldn't fit with the o2 sensor reading. Are you sure the Halfords sensor has the same output characteristics as the OEM sensor. I've never seen an OEM sensor output more than about 0.91-92V even with very excessive overfuelling. So it may just be that the Halford sensor outputs over a slightly different range to OEM.

I think it is definately worth replacing your MAF though.

Simon

PS I've got an OEM o2 sensor somewhere that you could borrow if you're near the Midlands

*Sonic*

Cheers Simon

Yes I agree the MAF is a little tired now, I bought one on the Group Buy not so long ago, and it got nicked when my garage got burgled, and ive yet to replace it, previously my Halfords O2 readings have always been around 0.890 and with other cars ive logged (similar year & spec, with OE sensors) they have been about the same give or take a few thou.

I do have another Halfords Lambda, but not to hand (Burr you still got it? )

I havent had chance to try one of the other ECU's I have knocking about, and the guy I bought a brand new Lambda & MAF has still yet to cash my cheque or deliver them

Thanks for the offer of the Sensor, but probably a bit far for me to come and borrow it

Steve

*Sonic*

Strange goings on I think

When I got the PPP ECU I got with it a 1.25mm drilled out restrictor for the boost pipe, so I stuck this in, and thats how my car has been running

However tonight I replaced the restrictor with the stock OE one, and my car seems to go like stink now

not delta dashed it yet, but will do tomorrow, boost is now peaking at 16.5 PSI, whereas with the other restrictor it was peaking at 15.5 (ish)

vulnax999

iTrader: (7)

So its working better now, still feel / look rich?

Is the OEM restrictor a smaller hole ( think it was 1.1 mm ? ) or larger?


IIRC it's only there to stop spiking in boost anyway!

vulnax999

iTrader: (7)

So maybe more than 255 bhp now ...! iThink we need a road trip to Prodrive soon before we change turbos!