timmyajmy93wrx

iTrader: (27)

Hi all

Right, i have got a run around so i can do the scooby up!
I would like advice on parts to get, where from and perhaps what i should steer clear from!

I have a 1993 wrx import with a z4 260ps ecu, with a scooby chip with 15.5psi.

Now i would like to know where to start to get more torque and bhp out of the old girl!!!!

I have been thinking along the lines of uprated fuel pump and regulator from lateral performance, bigger injectors (and fuel rail?) custom chip, front mounted intercooler, blitz system with magnex centre and already got hks decat pipe.
Am i starting on the right track? what else should i do that will help the car to run better and reliable?

Thanks for anyhelp, much appreciated!

timmyajmy93wrx

iTrader: (27)

is no one interested or want to help me? :-(

Jasoon

sopose most people are at work....

Dark Blue Mark

No one can easily answer that, as there are many options. Are you using it for road or track? What sort of power are you after? Big power may well need some internal engine work.

I wouls suggest the brakes need sorting, as they are crap on early WRX's, and it struggles with fade as standard.

Bigger injectors, fuel pump and reg are no good unless you have the car mapped for it, along with the turbo and FMIC. I wouls suggest if you're going down that route, to go for a GEMS or LINK ecu, custom mapped.

You also need monitoring gear before you start modding IMHO, which would be an AFR, Knocklink, and boost gauge.

As I say, the question isnt a very good one.

MB

timmyajmy93wrx

iTrader: (27)

hi there

right well sorry for the vague question! well to be more specific im after a fmic, bigger injectors and fuel rail, yes a custom chip!, new oil pump and fit an oil cooler.

Is this a good start?!? as for power im not too sure, i would like more but not mass amounts i want the car as a road car and not a nightmare to drive!

As for brakes, im after 4 pots fitting on under some 18" wheels! and would i be able to fit an a.b.s unit out of another scoob? at the mo i have EBC discs and redstuff pads

Yes all alot of money and time consuming work i know! but thats why i am wanting to do it properly and hopefully the right/sensible way!
thanks again

AvalancheS8

Unlikely and since most Scoobs have appalingly bad ABS anyway not likely to be helpful. If you don't have ABS just now I'd leave it that way, if you do you would probably have better braking without it the vast majority of the time.
Even allowing for that fitting uprated brakes will hamper the functioning of the ABS anyway - rendering it even less effective - as explained here. Theres lots of good info on brakes on that site.

timmyajmy93wrx

iTrader: (27)

ok thx for the advice on the abs, i will steer clear and get some 4 pots!!!

Now then, the engine, is it worth changing the cams and or pistons?

Delboy2

With regards to the engine components it mainly depends on how high you are setting your sights (power/torque) also general reliability. A few on Snet have managed 350hp-400hp using standard internals and as DBM has already stated monitoring equiptment is a must

Cheers

J4CK50N

Alrite mate!

Do you have any gauges fitted at the mo?

If not I would, as DB Mark suggests getting a knocklink, AFR and a Boost Gauge. Possibly even an oil pressure guage (but thats down to personal preference!

You would be pretty fcuked off if you spent all this money doing it up and then it going bang a few months down the line.

I put a knocklink in mine about six months ago in my type R and all was well. Then 5 months down the line it started lighting up like an xmas tree. Turned out to be a faulty sensor that probably would have cost me an engine if it was not for the knocklink. Invaluable in my eyes!

With regards to ABS - dont have it on mine and wouldnt want it anyways - if you get your brakes set up properly you wont need em anyways!!

Good luck with the project - keep us all posted!!

Dark Blue Mark

Seems like you are going about it back to front to me. I would want to know what I wanted from the car, then spec the equipment to get it there. You are saying you want a mis-match of bits, and therefore you aren't understanding what the outcome will be.

To say you want an FMIC, uprated pump, injectors etc, is not really going at it in the right direction. You might want an FMIC, but why? You might not need it, if you ony want 300 bhp...

Try turning it the other way round, and it will be much easier. As you say, you want to do it right and sensibly.

And 18's are too big IMHO, 16's and 17's are ideal for handling on a classic scoob.

MB

timmyajmy93wrx

iTrader: (27)

Thx for the replies there a great help, to be honest i will be wanting at least 350 bhp from the old girl.

I am ordering a lambda and a knock link tomorrow, i have a boost gauge and whilst 'modding' i will require some more but as to which i am unsure? oil pressure as stated would be good?

I was also toying with the idea to have stronger, lighter pistons fitted and new piston rings.
Now would i need to get high lift cams or keep the originals?
The car has done 56K

Thanks guys keep the info flowing!!!

Dark Blue Mark

Im no expert on this, but 350 will cost you a lot lot more than say 310 ish. Once you cross a certain point, the target of 350 leads to to needing an uprated clutch, bigger turbo, FMIC's etc. All depends on how much you want to spend...

If you want 300 ish, which is pretty damn rapid, you could just go for a full decat, uprated panel filter, cheap turbo from an STi and a remap.

350+ brings in bigger injectors, fuel pump, reg, FMIC's, bigger turbo etc etc... And therefore much more cost. By then, the bits will be worth way more that a £4500 WRX

Just worth a thought.

Good to see you're getting the vital monitoring bits done

MB

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Speak to Rich Wild at Jap innovations, his uk car has some serious power
Truthfully though, for what your going to be forking out, you could have had a better starting point, ie like an STi4 or even a 5. A FMIC will cost you 900 quid, the GEMS ecu is 2500 quid mapped, there is 3.4k already, that is a good step forward with alot more in place than you already have, ie 4 pots, IC water spray, STi engine.....
If you also start going for big power, your going to be upping your torque and as stated you will need a clutch that will be able to take that added power, just add around 440 quid for that, then a gearbox rebuild as much over 300lbs of torque and its unreliable, add say 1k for that, then add any other bits you may find you need (16 or 17 inch alloys depending on what brakes you eventually end up with, 400+ for a set of subaru 4 pots up to 1800 quid for a set of 6pot AP's).
Now look at your insurance co (actually look there first) as they will hammer you for everything you do (in 99% of the cases), add a few k on for that (and you think im joking )
This wont be cheap, and starting with an MY93 WRX shows that your budget could be tight.... (it isnt the best starting point as these cars improved over the years and better cars are available just a few years down the line).
Think hard and add the costs up.... (plus speak to rich wild ) and think what the worst thing you could end up with is (ie a new gearbox and engine )

Tony

timmyajmy93wrx

iTrader: (27)

thanks for that tony, true i can see your point but the car, all be it and 'old 1993 wrx' is infact in tip top condition and i love her to bits!
All the work i am hoping to carry out will be over time and i am in no rush to get the parts, hence the reason of buying another car to run about in.

All im asking for are recomendations of what is good for the car and what is not worth buying. I know i need a target of bhp im after, but im after nothing specific i am replacing/uprating internals and other parts to run better/reliable and obviously faster.

I have taken into account the clutch / gearbox problem, so i will be going to scooby clinic for a top of the range clutch they do for about 450 is it? plus release bearing. I had a recon g/box 4 months ago and it in the future if that gives in then that will be replaced with a more suitable item.

I am not after a 'harvey' tarmac monster just bit more power to see of evo's perhaps!!! thus leading to the questions of is it worth changing the cams and pistons / fuel injectors or can they handle the increase required?

RICH WILD

email me if you want at

info@jap-innovations.co.uk

and we can have a chat.

highlander68k

Unfortunately, there are so many variations of mods to get to certain power figures/increases it's difficult for anyone to give you an exact route to take, and of course which brand of components to use - this really depends on how much money you have to spend, and whether you are a person who likes to have the "in" brand names.

As it has been said, a good monitoring system is a MUST.

I'm sure Scooby Clinic are advising you on a suitable clutch for your needs - A friend of mine had a "Top of the range" PADDLE clutch for his and ended up with 3 months off work with a bad back due to the inappropriate paddle clutch for everyday driving.

A number of people tend to go for the organic clutch which seems quite a good compromise.


You'll probably need a "harvey" tarmac monster to beat most of the EVOs out there, as the majority of them seem to be pretty quick

As for the way forward, I would seriously consider the following:

You have a 93 WRX.

The internals don't seem to be too reliable over 300BHP - not really enough for EVO bashing
The injectors will be 380cc - not really enough for any huge power gains.
The turbo will run out of puff at before you're happy with the power gains.

My suggestions (in no particular order - well maybe)

Do the exhaust system (Blitz NUR-SPEC is loud and good for showing off)
Sort the air filter - ITG GREEN panel filter or similar
Sort the brakes - either Subaru 4-pots upgrade or aftermarket big brake jobbies. (worth more than an extra 20 BHP from the engine)
Sort the suspension and geometry - e.g. Eibach/prodrive springs and 4-wheel alignment.
Changing the clutch is always good too, as it's probably in need of replacing on a 93. I've got the AP organic kit and am well happy


If you're going to delve into the engine internals then if you've got the money the same prinicipal applies to the subaru as any car really:

You have a closed deck block (better the the open deck later ones IMO)

Get a set of forged pistons
Uprate the conrods.
Upgrade the crank, or at least get yours checked out.
Get a modified oil pump (to reduce risk of oil problems)

A pair of phase 2 heads would be beneficial over the phase 1 as they have better tuning/porting potential.

I wouldn't waste my time changing the cams unless yours need replacing, or you've got money burning a hole in your pocket.

A fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator would be advisable too for any power increase.

A REMAPPED ECU IS A MUST TOO WITH ANY MODS WHICH MAY CAUSE A VARIATION IN FUEL/AIR MIXTURES

I can't be bothered to type any more, so to be quick you can also do the following (and this is not really regarded as going over the top):

Uprated TMIC or FMIC, front entry turbo, fuel rail mods, Oil cooler (for track uses), IC spray, water injection etc. etc.

I would suggest spending time (and wasting less money) looking through the forum at individual threads to get a more in depth knowledge of each mod and it's pro and cons.

RICH WILD

I'm sorry Highlander, but although you started off well in your post, some of what you say toawrds the end is patently untrue.

Standard internals only good for 300bhp. Johnny Gav's standard internals WRX has registered 419bhp and we have a list as long as your arm of customers with over 300bhp on standard internals. The only problem with the internals comes when people have modded them without the type of safety precautions you rightly mention earlier in your post.

If modded properly by competent individuals, these engines are much stronger than the hype has led us to believe.

Also you say 380cc injectors are not good for decent power. Well I can list many people who've clocked well over 350bhp on 380 injectors, myself included. Andrew C on here has a beast of a UK wagon still on 380s, albeit with raised fuel pressure.

As for the turbo running out of puff, I doubt it. The TD05 is an excellent turbo with 380+bhp being achievable even retaining the 90 degree inlet. Again Jonny Gav has proved this with his car.

Also, you say a remapped ECU is a MUST with any mods which vary air fuel ratio. This is patently wrong. A remapped ECU is advisable to optimise the benefit of the modifications, but providing the necessary safety devices are there (knocklink etc) it is by no means a MUST.

My car is currently over 386bhp on the standard ECU without a remap using just bolt on mods. My next stage is a mappable ECU for it, but that is out of choice not necessity. Some amazing dyno results have been achieved by many of our customers on standard ECUs.

Apart from that you make some very valid and sensible points.

highlander68k

OK - That goes against all the things every tuner I've spoken to has told me about the "WRX" internals. Maybe they just aren't confident enough to use the standard internals for more power.


Again, I stand corrected. The tuners I've used have been bull-sh!tting me, running mine with 99% IDC.


I'm getting a bit embarassed now. I've had 3 different Subaru mappers telling me otherwise.


That's a better description of what I mean. But who would spend a couple(+) of grand on engine mods without bothering to have their car properly set up and risk blowing it up, even with a knocklink.

It's good to be wrong sometimes, as you get to learn a lot (quickly)

RICH WILD

No worries.

Glad you took my constructive critcism as it was intended.

The problem with taking advice from SOME tuners is that very often they will put the interests of their bank balance before the interests of you, the customer. Perfectly natural business practice of course, after all, they are in business to make money.

I've seen this myself many times. Before I joined "the industry" I was a customer and Subaru enthusiast and amateur tuner. So I've heard a lot of the stuff that gets spouted already. "You need this" and "you need that" when half of the time you simply don't, but it looks good on their sales figures

Don't get me wrong. There are some very good tuners out there with honest to goodness approaches (Scoobyclinic to name but one) but there are also some (that I have experienced personally) who are just in it for the margins.

That's probably a very cynical view I have and I'm drifting off the topic of the original thread, so I'll apologise and shut up now.

timmyajmy93wrx

iTrader: (27)

Right, now you to have had your say!

Just want to say thanks for everyone's contributions, thanks to tony for pointing me in rich's direction.
So big thanks to rich at jap innovations for the top advice, he has got himself another happy customer for years to come.
(i wounder if i plug some more i get discount!!! )

P.s rich is right about the selling for profits not helping the customer!! i already spoke to loads just after my money!!!
Shame on them!!!

So thanks all!!

I will keep posted on whats happening! - oh i have just bought a knock sensor and uprated fuel pump from rich!

Tim

timmyajmy93wrx

iTrader: (27)

Just a quick question....

I wired up my knock sensor, seems to work, but where the hell do i mount it on the engine!? anyone got any pics or can explain where to put it!!!

oh and where have you guys got yours on your dash / centre console?

Thanks all!!!

Tim

Dark Blue Mark

http://stefanostadal.homedns.org/car...Knock%20Sensor

MB

timmyajmy93wrx

iTrader: (27)

thanks for the link but doesn't seem to work!
cant load the page up, could be busy i spose, could you check it thanks

Tim

Dark Blue Mark

Down at the mo, but it is THE guide.

MB

timmyajmy93wrx

iTrader: (27)

Hi all,

Fitted my knock link on the scoob but cant even get a flash from the bloody thing. The 1st green light is lit but the others dont flash or anything. The bosch sensor is fitted under the intercooler on the top of the block all wires ok and i have tried the sensitivity but still dead. Anyone any clues?
and i have tried on the search!
I also tried driving the car, hitting the block and close to the sensor but nope.

Cheers

Tim

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Have you turned the sensitivity right up??
You will need to take your car out then and give her a good run (at night is best as you will see the led's better ) and take her up near the red line, you should get 2 greens showing due to engine noise near the redline.

Tony

timmyajmy93wrx

iTrader: (27)

Thanks tony i will have another go

timmyajmy93wrx

iTrader: (27)

AH HA!!!!

Sorted, the sensor connection wire had come loose when i connected to just had to put it back on and is a.o.k!
Next im fitting me walbro fuel pump! ( hope its not a pain!)

Next mod on the list is a Blitz boost controller and a hks fuel cut defender to be fitted by rich at jap innovations, anyone else got one!?!? i'd expect them to be good (as they are recomended by rich) but just wonderd what others think of them! Easy to use?
Tim