Lemmy

I have just fitted a knocklink to my MY02 STi Type UK and am getting the occasional red light which is not immediately repeatable under the same conditions.

The first time I drove after the KL fitting I accelerated upto the rev limit in 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear and got first one green light and then a second around 6000 rpm. OK I thought no problems here.

The next day I gave it WOT in fourth and somewhere around 6000 rpm the KL lights up all the way to the red light. I rapidly came off the throttle and then tried WOT again - this time no more than 2 green lights. Then I tried the same in 3rd gear - again no more than two green lights all the way to the rev limiter.

The following day I got the red light again ~6000 rpm this time in 3rd gear. Again this was not repeatable when I tried WOT again. WOT in 4th gear gave no more than 2 green lights.

The only time I have had the red light coming on repeatedly was in 3rd gear, accelerating from 5500rpm to 6500 rpm, lifting to let the revs drop to 5500 rpm and then accelerating again. However, when I tried this another day I got only green lights.

I am not absolutely sure but when I get the red light I think it is more of a spike than continuous, however, it may be me lifting off the throttle for obvious reasons.

Coming home from work today I could not get more than 2 green lights all the way to the rev limit in 3rd and 4th gear.

The KL is set at max sensitivity and the sensor is fitted on the block under the right side of the intercooler as recommended on SN. My car has a PE sports cat exhaust system and had a Ecutek remap about a year ago and give between 299 and 319 hp on the rolling road at 1.3 bar (1.4 on road).

I am currently running the car on Esso SUL, but it did the same on Optimax.

Any comments from the experts?

WRX_Rich

iTrader: (5)

my 02 wrx was doing this, if i was slow and steady with the right foot, it would not do it if i put my foot to the boards quick it was christmas tree time (never hit red)

took it to a expert who said the car was detting a small amount probably the ecu tek3 map (this was tested with det cans)

best bit was he said he was suprised it was not showing red, when we got back and tested the knocklink the red led was bust - thats all i needed, remap time for me

don't jump to conclusions because it could be something else ( I know some cars can light the LEDs and have no problem just need to change the senitivity), might be worth taking it to some one with det cans or even buying a couple of bottles of octane booster, putting them in and going for a blast , if it stops you can be pretty sure its det

edited to say

it was hard for me to replicate the KL as well, something to do with sensitive areas in the ecu tek3 map - im not expert Im still living and learning

out of interest who did the ecu tek? and is it a 2 or 3?

Lemmy

Rich

It is a tek3 which was done at PE about a year ago by the people now at Ecutek who help develop the Prodrive ecu maps. So they should know what they are doing, unless they have learnt alot more over the last year. It is the fact that it only lights up the red light occasionally under the same conditions that baffles me. I was about to put a bottle of octane booster in tonight like you suggested, but it was running OK on my way home from work, so I thought I would seek opinions on SN.

Alan

zhastaph

I'd tend to agree with Rich, the first thing you should do on your next fill up is chuck a bottle of Millers or NF in there (don't use anything else, these are both proven products). If you don't get the KL to light at all then it's pretty conclusive, it's det.

There's far too many variables that are going to make a difference to be able to rely on getting it under any one set of circumstances, such as current air temperature/density, temperature of your intercooler, engine temp etc.

Leaving the engine racing and then flooring it are perfect conditions to get the boost to spike over it's target boost pressure.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Red light = Det = Engine damage is likely to happen.
Avoid det at all cost.
Try running some N.F. 1ml per litre or you could try 2mls per litre. If that has not stopped the det get your car and map looked at by someone who knows what they are doing.
Who mapped the car?
Is it possible you have picked up a load of duff fuel?
What fuel was the car mapped on and what are you running now?

Lemmy

Harvey, in answer to your questions:

The car was mapped by Power Engineering about a year ago. I believe that Merv did the actual mapping.

Regarding duff petrol: it has done it on the only two tanks of petrol I have used since the KL was fitted, the first was Optimmax and currently I have Esso SUL in there which is the petrol I normally use and what it was mapped on.

Am I correct in assuming that the red KL light always indicates det and that it cannot be attributed to other engine noises????

zhastaph

Nope. Tap your engine with a spanner and it will light.

Rattly heat shields, gear box noise, all sorts of things can cause it. But a very brief spike is unlikely to be caused my much else other than det. A constant red light (a very scary sight ) has more chance of being caused by something else.

Lemmy

As suggested I have put some Millers in the tank - about 200 ml in 45 litres of Esso SUL and gone out for a test after a gentle 10 mile drive home.

No difference. Holding it at 5700 rpm in 4th gear and giving it WOT I get the red light as a spike which doesn't appear again if I let it rev to 7000 rpm. Bursts of WOT between 5700 rpm and 6000 rpm repeatedly give the red light as a spike.

Does this mean the ecu map is badly wrong or some other engine noise is causing it?

Alan

marklemac

Lemmy,

I'm fitting my knocklink next week to my MY02 STi type uk with PPP, as I am concerned about det myself, plus when I run delta dash I can see the car holding back and the AIM value keeps decreasing under full boost.

I too will be fitting the sensor to the right of the intercooler as suggested on another thread and confirmed as the correct location by Branco from BRD.

I'll post my findings as soon as I have them.

Delboy2

If its a 'spike' - then as zhastaph has already said it is more than likely DET. Its probably more noticeable in higher gears due to the increased engine load. Also as already suggested it may be an idea to have it listened to with DET cans and have the map checked out.

Cheers

LoFi

I had my first TEK3 map around a year ago not at PE) and then started getting the red light, a bit as you describe (but only after 6 months or so). Took it back to the mapper who confirmed DET with the detcans (although the ECU didn't see knock). Had to remap, although he did admit the early TEK3 maps were very agressive with the timing.

LoFi

DaveR

My MY02 WRX has also recently had a TEK3 (scoobysport), and I've also seen some red lights on the knocklink. The car is running an SS Uppipe, TSL Thundercat downpipe, decat centre and GrpN backbox. It also has a Green filter and an STI8 intercooler/STI7 scoop.

However I only experienced the red activity on very cold days. THe car was mapped during a relatively warm period in mid-January (about 10 deg C). I saw fairly reproducable red 'spikes', only in fourth and fifth gear on full boost for more than about 2 seconds, on VERY cold days.

Took it back to SS who reckoned it could be the cold weather (was about 0 or 2 deg C when I saw the knock lights). THey offered to tweak the map but suggested I wait until it warmed up a bit and saw if I had the same problem --> hey presto, it now seems to have gone away totally...... (boosts to 1.3bar without any reds).

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Best to get someone with det cans listen to it. I am sure Merv or Chris could do this for you if you are near by. Det destroys engines so avoid the reds 'til it is done. If you have just fitted a K.L. then it may be the sensitivity which is adjustable. On my STi it is possible to get K.L. reds but no det recorded by the ECU. It may be nothing but find out.

Lemmy

Yesterday, PE had a good look at my Scoob on their rollers using their ecutek software and a stethoscope. I had a long chat with Merv the conclusion of which was as follows:

The brief red light I was seeing on KL was a det spike which the ecu was seeing and reacting to. Thus when I tried to repeat it the ecu had learnt from what it had just seen and adjusted the timing to prevent the det. Basically the ecu runs the engine on the edge of det and is continually adjusting the timing to prevent it. I am told that the the engine will withstand the occasional det spike, as was proved by the engine still being in one piece after a year running with these settings. Having the KL on its most sensitive setting also makes things look worse than they actually are. On the rolling road PE were able to hear the det with a stethoscope and see the ecu making the appropriate adjustments.

PE then loaded their latest version of the ecutek software and adjusted the map so that it is less likely to produce det spikes. They also altered the VVC parameters to give me a few more hp and a broader torque curve. On the rolling road you could see the effect of their adjustments as the peak power gradually increased with each run. They also commented that the MAF sensor appeared to measuring slightly less air than it should be, probably due to dirt contamination, and they made the appropriate adjustments to the map.

So I am now happy with the situation and very pleased with the service from PE and Merv.

Dark Blue Mark

Imagine if you had no knocklink fitted......

Lesson to all those doubting people.

MB