PhilBennett

We use WRX STI Version 5 Type RA at one of the schools I work for.

All last year we had terrible engine failures - In the summer we were doing one almost every other week. All lost through detonation - even running the things with octane booster didn't really do much.

As an aside we also found the gearboxes to be very weak.

Now OK these things are being run at the very extremes - I guess it is like being on a permanent track day!

This year we have re-mapped the engine - as a result we have lost a little power - however we are sticking (I believe) to the same fuel mix i.e octane booster.

Don't forget in Japan you get 100 RON petrol at the pump.

I guess if you aren't flat out all the time then the new 97 RON super UL fuel will be OK - I'll let you know how we get on.

Possum Fink

Phil,

interesting news - I believe that they Palmer have four STi Vs that constantly have the engine out.

How did you remap - it is a version V you are talking about isn't it?

Yours Interestedly,

Possum Fink

sunilp

Mr Fink

I understand that Palmer Driving school or whatever they are called are now running detuned STi's using Link (but i suppose you knew that already?)

[This message has been edited by sunilp (edited 26-02-2000).]

PhilBennett

Re-mapping just needs the software that goes with the ECU.

However I'm just a driver - the motors were sent away to be altered. I believe in essence they simply backed off the ignition.

pwebb

I smell a hokey story...
since the v5 ecu has yet to be cracked by any 3rd party (even Prodrive use STI to make changes for them) how the hell is some small outfit able to 'remap' ? - maybe link or motec were fitted - better to get electronic rev limiters fitted (about 6000 rpm maybe) if they are used by 'hotheads' on a regular basis no? - anyway, as an owner myself, I wouldn't have thought the sti5 was a very good training car - unless they fit standard S-01 tyres and the intention is to scare the **** out of the learners ;-)

Paul W

PhilBennett

Some people! You just can't help them can you?

Nevermind standard management, what about GEMS, Pectal, or EFI? There are hundreds of mapable management systems.

We have had big problems with these cars - it has cost mega money to sort out and I'm just trying to help you guys - I don't run a Impreza.

As for tyres - Get a life forget road tyres we use Michelin slicks.

NeilR

Wouldn't it be better to drop STi III engines (or earlier) into the STi V's

These engines appear to be much happier with our fuel and stronger also.

NeilR

Rog L

I also got the brochure from Palmer Racing (the new one) and thought that it would be a great day out. Is that right about only using fourth in the Scooby,s ???? I,d really hoped for some good driving tuition and some great tips.
Please please advise.

Thanks
Rog L

Possum Fink

Having read this thread I feel sorry for Phil

He has posted something to try and be helpful and has been a bit hassled! The Palmer thing is probably a bit distracting as well.

Anyway, Phil - I know you are not an engine man, however if your cars have been successfully remapped it would be very useful if you could share that information with us as it would be very useful.

Possum Fink

pwebb

Phil,
reference to std tyres was a joke ! - the cars come with diabolical factory fit tyres - of course you remove these!

anyway - I read the blurb on the palmersport site - driving experience 2000 pages... it waxes lyrical about caning the impreza engine up to 8000 rpm - no wonder your punters then go out and thrash the living daylights out of the cars - hell you even time them around the course.... this is why other schools use rev limits no? - its a bit too late to cry 'unfair' when you are actively encouraging the clients to abuse the cars... no I'm sorry but you only have yourselves to blame - not the fragility (supposed) of the sti engine.

not that I wouldn't thrash the things myself on a corporate event though - something to do with the 'someone else is paying' mentality I think ;-)

thanks for the warning - but it is hardly applicable to normal road use... you may have gathered that some of us are 'sensitised' to the "sti 5 engines go bang" point of view - I for one am actively trying to discourage the associated scare stories that are being bandied around the place - that's all.

no offence,

Paul W

PhilBennett

Neil - not sure like I said I'm not an engine man. The story with these Impreza's is that at the beginning of 99 Subaru UK (IM Group) wouldn't do a deal (i.e make cheaper) on standard 2000 turbos.

So the school said OK we'll buy WRX's directly from Japan. Since then the school reckons to have spent around £50K on engines, re-builds and the final fix.

I guess at the end of the day they aren't desparate to keep the things but I saw that a common theme was the use of 97 RON fuel and I thought I'd share our experience.

Frankly it hasn't been good.

PhilBennett

Hey Paul no offence taken - but it seems that many of the users of this site are into track days plus they tune their cars.

I'd have to say in that situation from my experience in '99 - plus 97 RON fuel - the motor will have a good chance of letting you down.

Jonathan

If these are the Palmer Cars we are talking about.

I did the Motorsport Experience there last year. The two cars that were really disapointing in that day were the STI and the SLK.

The STI was on Slicks on a damp track. You were not allowed to go beyond 4th (they want you in fourth almost straight away, and then just stay in it)and at no time did the revs go beyond 5000. Whilst I managed to plow through a number of cones during my four runs, most of the time was spent figuring where the cones went next.

At no point did you get to feel the acceleration of the Scooby. I was left wondering why they use the STI there it is wasted. The real ciruit driving was done in a Passat 4 motion (If only it had been the Scooby) The Caterhams and the Elise were in a different league for a smile factor.

Cant wait to go again this year. One of the best days out Ive had.

Jonathan

[This message has been edited by Jonathan (edited 27-02-2000).]

GavinP

Its probably of little significance, but Chiptorque (a chip tuner in Australia) advertise a chip for the 99 car - see

PhilBennett

Jonathan - not wishing to be rude but in fairness you have already given us the reason why we keep you guys on a fairly tight lead.

Regards the 4th gear point - this is due to a couple of things. Firstly due to the quick acceleration of the car most customers end up snatching their way, aggressively, up the gears - to the point where we did a gearbox every week (and that is the truth!).

Secondly people end up panicing when they get to the corners and fumbling for gears just makes things worse! MORE CONES GET PLOUGHED!

At the end of the day safety has to be the number one priority and a 280 BHP car is quick enough (and as much power as they can cope with) for all of the people I've ever instructed.

BTW - Rog - the day is fantastic and you will get loads of instruction and advice.

A WRX on the Passat course is out of the question - we would get into real trouble with customers shunting.

Regards the re-map - I'm down at the school soon and will ask for more details on the management used and the re-work done to try and extend the life of these motors.

R19KET

[This message has been edited by R19KET (edited 27-02-2000).]

[This message has been edited by R19KET (edited 27-02-2000).]

Jonathan

Phil

I understand the reasons for keeping the customers in fourth and as you said even I who's used to a 280 bhp Scooby plowed through cones (although slicks on a wet track did give a lot less grip than I was used to).

I also understand to a point the reasons for keeping the customers off a real track. For me who's used to taking a 300bhp Scooby on a track it was very disapointing the format.
Half a mile of tightly coned track was not that exciting. You also have the ability to run with an Instructor to stop things getting out of hand. The single seaters surely offer more danger of a crash ? As I said before its a great day and I learnt a lot :- the customers I took loved it as well.

Maybe the Scoobies should of been replaced by a different car for 2000 ?.


Jonathan

PhilBennett

Glad your guests enjoyed themselves - which is the name of the game!!

Re the WRX's - for sure I take your point but unfortunately we have to cater for the lowest of abilities - you just can't allow for what some people do!!!

PhilBennett

Fair enough but you need to cater for the lowest of abilities - you wouldn't believe what some people do!

FrankM

Hi GavinP

I have send many, many mails to chiptorque and their resellers, but I have got no answer at all.

Also I contacted Racelogic, and they told me, that they don't distribute the Chiptorque ECU.

pwebb

ok - so what do we think after Donington - where sti 5s were to be seen 'giving it some' all day with not a single problem?

In fact I believe that a UK car was the only engine failure towards the end of the morning? - anyone care to elaborate?

in particular S83??? WRX sti 5 - one of the quickest cars all day long and also out on the circuit longer than most - surely if we are to believe all the hype then all those sti 5s should have been detting like mad?

time to kill the rumour ?

Paul W

Ian Cook

There were no engine failures on the day at all, the one with the smoke pouring out of it lost the cap on the header tank, it was put back, topped up, and the car ran fine with no leaks or problems after.

RobMac

Guys,

Just to clarify the situation regarding the Palmer cars.

They WERE re-mapped a couple of weeks ago and I even told Phil this on another BBS thread last week. The re-map was done at Bruntingthorpe, they were not sent away to be done, I even helped smooth out the map and check the performance to make sure they didn't go too far away from standard.

All of this was done in an attempt to stop all of the engine failures discussed previously.

I know all of this because I helped to arrange it!!!

I agree with Phil's comments regarding the things customers get up to, you should try having to sit next to them for a day, UNBELIEVABLE!!! That is why the event is run as it is and for no other reason. The Subaru course has seen a number of fairly major shunts over the years (before the Subarus arrived), and safety is an over-riding concern. You still get MUCH more freedom at Palmer's than at any other school. Ad remember IT'S NOT YOUR CAR

When asked what the best event of the day was, most customers said the Subaru Sprint.

The cars were due to go to the new site at Bedford this year, where they would have been allowed a much greater range of freedom; but another manufacturer vetoed this, basically because they knew that the Scoobys would destroy their rival car that is used at Bedford.

Rob.

jwhitton

RobMac,

Is the Scooby course still at Bruntingthorpe?
I went in 1998 with Sun Microsystems when you had:
Elise
Caterham
SLK
E-class
Van Deman (spelling?)
etc...

Has the track layout at Bruntingthorpe changed since 1998, if not what is the "Scooby" track.

jon

Pete Croney

j,

I am replying using Pete's computer, but no, the Impreza's were sold last week due to ongoing problems

Rob.

PhilBennett

I agree about the Donington day but like Rob just said - they became too much in the end that they had to go.

Stef

I guess it's just another reason to keep Scooby buying 'official'.

Stef.

pwebb

presumably they were sold at a 'knock'- down price - sorry couldn't resist the pun
;-)

Paul W