Ken E

I have been using NF Race Formula as a booster for about a year now and have just started looking around to see where I can get some more, as my stock is running low. I have noticed on one website that they have stopped selling it, mentioning something about the safety of it or the safety labels, and that some tests had been done that suggest it doesn't improve octane any more than other boosters that are available.

If that is the case then should I bother with any booster at all, given that the others I have seen only seem to increase ron by a couple of points (.2 ron or so) which doesn't seem like it would make that much difference.

I was running a 94 WRX with a scoobysport downpipe and a HKS Hiper and it showed no det or knock correction when on a rolling road with optimax and 1ml per litre of NF. I have recently changed to an sti and am wondering what the effect of running it purely on optimax will be, it has no mods at all.

Can anyone clarify this ?

Thanks

Ken

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

I do not claim to be an expert in any way in this matter, my thoughts on this are based purely on my experiences and the comments of others on this bbs (and there is a wealth of information in this forum alone).

I personally don't care how much RON points it raises it by, its more important to me to know if it helps prevent det. Det being a very big expansive word indeed . Some opinions are that it justs masks det, as in det is still there but the knock (and knocklink) sensor doesn't pick it up. There are tuners on here that say they can run a bit more timing before they see det with NF. However IMO you would have thought by now that if det was still there and sensors were being fooled then we would have had more det related engine failures reported (or covered up ).

When I take my car on track I always double dose with NF. I feel that if det were to happen then the obvious time is 15 mins into a session on a hot summers day, inlet temps being sky high. I used to monitor EGT only and I have never seen over 1500F in the headers (which I consider my 'too hot' threshold). I haven't done a trackday since fitting my knocklink. All I know is that my car hasn't lunched itself after a hot trackday so I'm not changing my NF routine . Not only that but alot of the more regular track goers on this board also use NF, now just because loads of respected people on this bbs use it doesn't neccessarily mean it raises RON by x amount, or other octane boosters are ineffective, but IMO if it ain't broke...

Also if you oen a classic STi then I'd run optimax and do everything possible to prevent det, which firstly means being able to see it with a knocklink. If it doesn't knock, then NF may not be any advantage if you wish to keep your present power level

submannz

Jay, sounds like you need to look at water injection

Nezz10

NF can still be bought from Gecko Motorsport and Subaru 4 U, ordered mine yesterday.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I have found NF to be an excellent product. Much better than any other octane booster I have used. And the more you use the better it is.

I don't know which experts have say that it merely 'masks' det. In my experience of road and track this does not seem to be the case. Also my mind is boggled as to how it 'masks' det - could someone explain?

Rannoch

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

Dave, IIRC the 'masking' theory was knocking around on the big thread of yesteryear on Blowdogs site - excuse the pun

I'm in the thinking that det is det, transient or otherwise its always heard at their respective frequencies, how an additive can change this I'm not sure..

Justin

ragnarock2

I believe it was mycroft who was saying it 'masks' det, dunno why/how, thats far to technical for me!

nom

I think it's a technicality - yes it 'masks' det, but does exactly the same thing that higher octane fuel does in the first place, so does it matter? It reduces knock - possibly only giving an 'effective' RON rather than a real RON, but who cares? It does the job it's meant to, whatever

Ken E

Thanks for all the replies, difficult to know what all that stuff I read on that site was about. They are trying to sell a rival product but I don't want to speculate how much this has to do with the comments.

It seems that the general view is that whether or not it actually increases ron doesn't matter, if it reduces det or the chances of det then it is worth buying so that is good enough for me and I'm going to get some more.

Cheers

Ken

dingy

Do you think it would be allowed into the country if it was what they are claiming ?


Regards
Steve

NF comes out on top of all tests btw

john banks

If I use +5 degrees timing without NF (albeit mega doses) it audibly dets. If I use NF it doesn't. Now if it is masking knock from knock sensors it is doing it to two of them with different frequency response and interpretation systems and also masking my ears

Mycroft will tell you to use toluene and then not answer any of your questions on how to source it. How surprising

Deep Singh

Mycroft also thinks his Lexus Soarer can out corner Scoobs/Evos/Skylines and modern Ferraris.

Deep Singh

Some might accuse me of being a sheep but I do believe in current expert opinion.Bob Rawle,John Banks and others use it,thats good enough for me.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Toluene is VERY difficult to source in quantity in the UK. It is also illegal to store it in a domestic premises! Well it is in the quantity you need to keep to maintain a third of your tank with it.

It is good - but has drawbacks as it can over time clog injectors. It is commonly used in Australia.

Lexus Soarer - mmmmmmm - not on my shopping list of cars!

Rannoch

bwhinnen

Toluene was touted as the only legal (with Subaru Warranty) way to increase the octane of our 92RON fuel upto 95RON. Thats why it was widely used in Australia. Some of us use NF Race formula instead as it is a) easier to use and b) cheaper than a 20L drum of Toluene, and less caustic.

I've never had a problem with NF (at 2ml / L mictures) on 92RON back when the car was stock besides a Turbo back exhaust, FMIC and 16PSI with an MBC, this was travelling through central Australia where 95RON is impossible to get, let alone 98RON.

Cheers
Brett
MY00 (Aust Spec)

hypoluxa

We managed an extra circa 5 degrees advance after a full bottle of NF was added to Optimax. Monitored via Det cans and a Knock Link, oem sensor was unplugged.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Similar to my own experience.

With my water injection I get between 4-6 degrees of extra advance. When the water supply failed on track - using a whole bottle of NF enabled the car to continue running without having to remap.

Rannoch

ragnarock2

Apologies, I wasn't backing mycroft up, all you lot confuse my far from technical mind, I just remebered reading it was mycroft! I use the stuff at the mo in my Sti V type R, and tyhe knock link never lights more than 1 green light on max sensitivity, wheras without it, it would occasionally rack up a red light, so, until I get a remap, I will continue to use it!

Leslie

Cannot reconcile this business of "masking Det". Are they saying that the NF hides the fact that detonation is occurring even though it can't be heard? Surely if det is occurring then it will make a pinking sound because the charge has fired off too early and is causing serious stress on the engine. If this happens then one would expect the knock sensor to hear it. If the knock sensor does not hear it then it can't be happening. In this case the NF has prevented det and done the business for you. If I have got the wrong end of the stick, could someone please explain.

I thought that Toluene was a major constituent of cellulose paint thinners. Someone mentioned this in a thread some time ago.

Les

nom

You're about right with the det - if nothing went 'bang' (det) to hear, then nothing went bang...
The only 'iffy' bit is whether there is still a 'bang' but it sounds different (i.e. 'masked' I suppose you could say) so the knock sensor doesn't pick it up but it is still occuring. However, seeming people have used it with det cans (so through ears that will still pick it up, whatever it may sound like!), and there is det reduction using NF - presumably vaguely in line with what the ECU sees(?) - therefore the knock sensor is hearing right & there isn't any knock, so NF (or similar) is doing the job

MurrayZA

70000km on a 250bhp 01 WRX with 100ml NF to 50l fuel (2ml per litre) on 93 Ron at 1600ft in JHB, South Africa. Still going like a train.

john banks

NF has stopped my engine blowing up so far.

sparkster

i'm just about to fill up with optimax and NF. Fingers crossed cos i'm hoping that on reseting the ECU, the original jap settings will stay the way they are and the Knocklink will remain quiet. Here goes

sparkster

That would be a "YES"

I am so pleased with the results that NF has just given me.

I used to use optimax and STP octane booster and my Knocklink would stop hitting red. This is in relation to a 93WRX jap import. Not only this but the car has just been missing something. Just not feeling very sharp.

Got some NF race formula (bit scary putting in tank cos its like treacle). I filled up in the region of 3ml per litre. Having let the fuel get through the system, i reset the ECU.

Two good things have come of using NF:

1. AT LAST - i can drive this car how its meant to be driven with the knocklink hardly even hitting second green.

2. The car is so much sharper which is especially noticeable in second and third.

This is seriously worth the money!!

Jap import owners - ide really consider trying some of this stuff if you want your car to be running how it should

mega_stream

I see everyone seem to be on about the NF Race, is the One Shot just as effective?, I use this stuff, one bottle to £25 of Optimax.

Unmodded STi5 RA

Cheers

John

MurrayZA

NF One Shot - The orange bottle is a bit like p!ss water. Over here we find it much better to use 1/2 bottle of black instead.
(Dunno what the cost difference is there).

marklemac

Wheres the best online place to purchase NF Race Formula ?

Many thanks.