*Sonic*

Ive just about lost all my oil, it looks like its been leaking for a bit, but mainly last night

Ive had a look underneath, and theres pretty much oil just about everywhere, but not a single drop can be seen from under the bonnet

It looks like its the Oil filter as I have managed to give it another half turn with my hands

Is this the lilkely source, or could it be something more sinister

I only had the oil & filter changed about a fortnight ago

I dont have an oil filter tighetner, is there anything else I can use to give it one last tighten up

Regards

Steve

Delboy2

The rubber O'ring hasn't become dislodged from its groove in the filter body causing it to distort when tightened? Had something similar happen on another car, oil everywhere!!

Cheers

*Sonic*

Not too sure, as I havent removed the filter yet

Ive just left it for about half an hour, and there is still a tiny bit of oil that has run down the side of the filter, and I have managed to get it a little tighter

Darent run the engine yet

Steve

Foot_Tapper

I had a dodgy seal on an oil filter. Doesnt sound as bad as yours tho. Did you notice smoke coming out from the bonnet, after a drive. My leaking oil found the exhaust an smoked quite nicely.
Replaced the seal and filter, all ok.


One other thing , it only leaked when moving, due to pressure i suppose.

[Edited by Foot_Tapper - 4/20/2003 5:19:56 PM]

*Sonic*

No thats the strange thing, no smoke at all, and engine appeared (sounded) to be running fine

the oil light hasnt been on either, the whole under tray is covered in oil, none on the downpipe tho

ive cleaned away a lot of the oil that was there, and it doesnt appear to be coming from anywhere else, cept the filter, and now just a token of a trickle

but there is a nice line from my drive and all the way up the road where the oil has left its mark

Foot_Tapper

The smoke may be a red herring for you, as mine is a sport,
i'm not sure if the pipes run in exactly the same place.
When the mechanic put it up on the ramp, it seemed like a lot of oil but the level hadnt gone down much, looked worse than it was.

But if you have a trail down the drive , it does look worse.

I'd change the filter & seal, top it up, and do the up n down the drive test first to see if all looks clear.

Delboy2

If its definitely coming from the filter seal I would just replace the filter because if the seal is already damaged it may fail completely when driven as the oil pressure will be much higher(approx 3-4bar)when the engine is running at higher rpm's. If this happens you may run the risk of damaging the engine and turbo.

Cheers

*Sonic*

THanks for the help & advice

there hasnt been any more leaking from the filter, but then I havent started the engine up, im gonna get some more oil tomorrow, and possibly new filter (if I can get one) and hopefully all will be ok again

Steve

Delboy2

I would get a new filter and fit it anyway cos if the one fitted now does fail (oil pressure 40-60psig) the damage sustained could cost serious cash.

Cheers

tweenierob

Hi Mate
3 things..
Firstly if the oil seal on the old oil filter sticks to the block and you do not notice it can cause a leak having two seals.

Secondly are you sure it is coming directly from there and not elsewhere??? although there may be heavy oil deposits from there, make sure that the oil isnt running from elsewhere (see pt 3) and dripping off the filter.

Thirdly, There is a chance that it may be you rear crank seal, i have changed a few of these in the past couple of weeks so it just sprung to mind.

Rob

*Sonic*

Hi Rob

Im really not sure where its coming from, cept from the oil filter area

I left it for a few hours, and it has been dry whilst stood

I just put some oil in, and ran round the block in it, and came back and checked, and there is fresh oil on the bottom of the oil filter, and a small amount on the side, so it is leaking from at least the top of the filter, I really am hoping it is just the seal that has gone

I cant really see any other traces of oil anywhere else (or seemingly coming from anywhere else), you'll have to forgive my level of mechanical knowleadge, but where is the rear crank (or seal so I can take a look)

My bro just confirmed that there is oil outside his house (I went there friday after work), but strangley there is no oil at my mums (was there yesterday)

there are at least 7 or 8 lines from my house stretching for about 100 yards, where I have increased my speed so the lines have disappeared

Steve

tweenierob

Hi Steve, your seal may not be leakin so dont worry to much at the mo..
The rear crank seal sits on the back of the engine so it is almost 100% not that mate, however there is a chance it may be the front one.. if they fail the oil runs down the front of the engine and drips off the bottom of the engine.

IMO If the seal on the filter was leaking it would do it all the time, whereas the crank seal only normally leaks when the car has been running as the oil level sits below the crank seal when switched off..

Best thing to do IMO is to give the underside of the engine a good clean with a jet wash, get the car on axle stands and have a good look at the bottom of the engine with a torch so that you can see into all the knooks n crannies if you can lay under the car you should get a good idea where the leak is coming from.

Rob

*Sonic*

Thanks Rob

It does look like it has been leaking constantly for at least the last 2 or 3 days, the patch of oil on my drive is pretty big, and the under tray was soaked in oil, most of it pooled around where the filter is

Ive had a look under with a torch, and wiped away all of the oil that I could get too, everywhere looks clean even the silver bit that the filter screws into (doesnt help that the filter is black tho )

From the top side you cant see a single drop of oil anywhere at all, no matter where you look, and underneath all around the sump is bone dry too

Ill take another look in the morning, once I got daylight again

THanks

Steve

*Sonic*

Well not sure if its got worse or not

Just been out in the car to try and buy a new filter (no one has any in stock at all !!!!!) and just been to the dealers too, and they dont have a key to the stores so they couldnt sell me one (Mainland in Widnes)

When I got back home (only about 3 miles from Mainland) I lifted the bonnet, and there was a lot of burning smoke coming from around the turbo / downpipe area or underneath it at least

there is still some seepage from the oil filter, but I cannot see where it is coming from, and I dont have a new one so I can take this one off, and it is as tight as I can possibly get it now

I have some more oil, so I could swap that out, to find it all over my drive again in the morning, I need to get my car running before tonight, as I have to go to manchester first thing in the morning

dhorwich

If its coming from the oil filter area it could be the oil cooler oil seal, which is in between the oil cooler above the oil filter and the block..!! You can buy the seal from www.grahamgoode.com if it is the problem..!

Dan

*Sonic*

Hi Dan

Thanks, it may well be coming from there, Its still diffficult to tell, even when I wipe away the oil from the filter, I still cant see where it is coming from

the burning smoke, 'may' be coming from the oil still on the gearbox, and around that area, where a lot of it ended up

dhorwich

One way that could help you to see if its the front crankshaft oil seal thats gone is to undo the cam belt cover on the right of the engine and have a quick look in to see if the cam belt has been contaminated with oil..!! its only a few bolts... However, its not a sure fire way to tell if the front crankshaft oil seal has gone though but could help..!

Its the part just shown in the pic below..! I think there are only 3 bolts to undo..



Dan

[Edited by dhorwich - 4/21/2003 5:12:21 PM]

*Sonic*

Thanks Dan, Ill take a look

Just had another look round the filter area underneath, and the oil cooler bit, is as dry as a bone, including all around that area, cept for the bit where the two pipes come in, both have the tiniest oil around them

Ill see if I can take a pic, but its a bit dark under there

*Sonic*

Here are a couple of pics of the filter,





Although you cant see the oil in the pic, it does drip down the side that is closest to the manifold, but it was further round before I tightened it up again

I can still undo the oil filter quite easily, and have yet again tightened it up as much as I can, it would seem that driving the car, it slackens off again

and the oil collects on the bottom of the filter

Steve

tweenierob

Cam cover gasket would explain the burning, it drips down onto the Up pipe and burns as the cam cover is above the up pipe.
The smoke would appear to come from the downpipe area.
Using my car and Dans car as n example, the bottom of the gearbox, cross member and power steering rack were covered in oil when our rear crank seals went. this did drip from the cross member though rather than further forward near teh oil filter.

Dan suggestion is deffo worth a look!!

If the Cam cover gasket is leaking badly it will drip from that area and burn on the up pipe.

Just some thoughts...

Rob

Run your fingers along the bottom of the rocker/cam cover and see if you get any oil deposits on your fingers, also... the front crank seal is just above the oil filter...

What milage has your car done??

Bob Rawle

Can I suggest that you actually remove the filter and check to see if there is a seal there or if its damaged, the fact that it slackens off is a concern and you shouldn't drive it any distance until its sorted, it could be the front crank seal though, common fault. Once oil leaks out it gets everywhere and will be blown onto all the hot bits as soon as the rad fans start up.

Bob

*Sonic*

Thanks for the comments guys

Ive taken off the filter and inspected it, and cleaned it with the help of Chris J, who travelled over from Leeds to help me out at short notice ! (many thanks Chris)

Chris Hand tightened it, then used the chain tool, to tighten it up further, and I managed to undo it with my hands quite easily

So we re fit it again, and tightened it up, so that neither of us could undo it again with our hands

Both the seal & face plate where spotless (cept for the oil, and mark where you could clearly see where the O ring had been)

Filled the car back up with oil (bout 2 litres) and took it for a spin, on returning there was again some smoke (coming from underneath the turbo area), and a horrible stinking burning smell

Now this smell (im really hoping) could possibly be all the excess oil that covers the bottom of the gearbox, or my clutch is burning

The car is a MY00 Dutch Import, with 22k miles, and other than 2 spirited runs to Santa Pod with the guys from 5ive-o the car is mainly used on the motorway usually around 60-80 depending on traffic in a morning

very few mods, other than a backbox & centre magnex, ITG Panel Filter (been in for 7k miles), and a few days ago a Dawes Device running 15 PSI Held in 4th and 5th

Bob Rawle

Having removed, cleaned and refitted was there still oil around the filter or is it now just from under the turbo, as a thought, check the poil pressure warning light switch, I've seen those leak. Its above the big crank pulley just behind the crank sensor, also have a good look to see if there is oil on top the engine that could be running back.

bob

*Sonic*

Just another note, what is this bit


as this had some oil around the bottom of it yesterday, but since I cleaned it, it has been ok, the bottom of the gearbox is covered in oil, but so is pretty much everything else down that part of the car, as the undertray was swimming in oil

Above the filter is bone dry, as is everything else in that area, the filter was very loose to the hand, and has only seem to have leaked most of the oil the last few days

The filter was replaced the day before the last run to the Pod, and was fine at the Pod (no oil, smelling etc), i didnt run down the strip tho, and has been for about a week or so since, and Ive done a fair few miles since then too

Also When I had the Dawes Fitted, there were no oil marks around (this was done on Tuesday evening)

Steve

*Sonic*

Hi Bob

There is no oil whatsover anywhere topside of the engine, and Ive had a damn good look around, there doesnt appear to be any more oil coming from the filter area now, but as a precaution, I have left the under tray off, so I can quickly inspect it, I have also put a huge white cardboard box under the engine, as there is that much oil on my drive, I need a quick way of seeing if any more oil has leaked

Im also going to inspect it a bit later, and first thing in the morning before I set off for work

I have a shortish run in the morning, where I can stop at the services and check the car again, and If still bad, then I can go back home and try and sort it out again, but I am hoping that it is all sorted and that it was just the oil filter that had worked loose

Steve

*Sonic*

Ok, well I drove to Manchester & back today (bout 50 mile round trip)

and when I got home, i checked the filter, there is still a small amount of oil that has weeped down one side (the same side it has been coming from)

Ive thoroughly (as far as I can) checked all around the immediate area with a torch, and there is no oil at all anywhere else, bone dry under the cam cover/ front of engine, all the joins are bone dry

Still gonna keep my eye on it, and see what happens, but it is puzzling the hell out of me

Steve