john banks

I can assure you that the TD04L has a similar arrangement for water cooling since I had to lie in puddles of coolant which the turbo pipework pi$$ed out after we disconnected the coolant hoses when swapping it

[Edited by john banks - 7/1/2002 9:47:17 AM]

thecirsch

Is there any point having a timer fitted if you only use your car on the road (I.e no track days etc..) and you leave the engine the engine to idle before you switch off, or should they go in the 'must have' box??

My thinking is if they are a good feature to have, why aren't they fitted as standard??

Cheers,
Ed

Brun

complete waste of time. Money is much better spent else where.
I wait with bated breath for the onslaught from the timer boys.

BuRR

I value mine - if only to prevent me turning the engine off too early from force of habit.

dhorwich

Hi,

I cant believe im hearing an owner of a turbo car saying turbo timers are a waste of time..... do you read performance car magazines... e.t.c..... its not only just a turbo timer the decent ones i.e HKS type 1 like mine.... give a digital read out off current speed, 1/4 mile time, battery voltage, 0-100km time, 0-200km time.... they have a stop watch for track days e.t.c and the blitz ones even has a boost gauge all that for £120, and the new apexi ones have an AFR read out which everyone goes on about on here, i would not say that is a waste of money considering a decent boost gauge can cost nearly £120.....

Its your choise to drive without one but im sure we will see a thread on here soon saying "ive got blue smoke on tick over what do you think the problem is...!!"

My turbo timer in an automatic one so it knows how long to leave the car running depending on how hard the car has been driven.... you would be suprised how long it needs leaving sometimes, you cant just say well i will drive off boost for the last 10mins on the way home then leave it for 30 secs...!!

Just my 2p worth...

Dan

teknopete

Ed,

The turbo timer is used to ensure the fluids all get back to where they are meant to be after using the car. Best example i`ve seen was some1 who didn`t use 1 and didn`t leave his car idling b4 shutting off. He had burnt oil clog his turbo which in turn caused
a failure. A couple of quid against a couple of hundred quid. You do the maths m8

Pete

FamousCoops

i fitted a blitz dual its a must have piece of kit u wanna save that turbo dont ya.

Brun

Won't be popping my turbo, i sit for quite a while before shutoff. I don't need a £120 egg timer to do the job for me.

Andy.F

Throwing the cat amongst the pigeons..............

I have a turbo timer and don't use it for road use
The turbo's have a water cooled core, this is always flooded due to the height of the header tank. Even with the engine switched off, water circulates around the core due to natural convection.

The problem of carbonised oil and cooked seals is only applicable to oil cooled turbos such as the R5 Turbo, even then it's only usually a problem with old/crap oil.

Subaru thoroughly test the heatsoak capabilities of all components. If turbo's failed when switched off hot, they would never be fitted !!

Any more that a short idle period is a waste of time and fuel IMHO.

Dark Blue Mark

Why do they put a sticker on the door saying "leave to idle for 1 minute"

Can't imagine they did all that testing, then stuck that on there for fun?

MB

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Dunno about my TD04 having a watercooled core, i think mine is oil cooled!
Are turbo timers a waste of time??
Nope they are not
Mine is fitted as a part of my security so i press button and lock up and leave her to idle for 2 mins before she turns off.
Your turbo will take a certain ammount of abuse from you turning it off from hot etc but eventually it will kill it and even if you sit there in your car for 2 mins whilst the engine idles down, thats 2 mins you could have been gone from your car.
Like boost gauges, you can live without, the same with a turbo timer but having these items makes your life much easier to live with, one of my first and best mods

Tony

dhorwich

Every turbo on the market has to have oil for the turbo bearing....!!!! it doesnt have water to lubricate the turbo bearing.... its oil.... most bearings need oil/grease to work correctly...!! most also have water cooling too..!!!

The turbo timer is noy just there as an egg timer, it has a number of other facilities....

Dan

Dark Blue Mark

Oops DP.

[Edited by Dark Blue Mark - 6/30/2002 4:26:19 PM]

Dark Blue Mark

Exactly!
Its not thermal cracking thats the issue, its dissapating the hot oil from the bearings...

MB

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Yup oil plays an important part, thats why i run my scoob on fully synthetic, better at dissapating the heat and more versatile than semi or mineral oils

Tony

john banks

The driver has knowlegde of the ambient temperature, has integrated the amount of boost used in the last x minutes and knows the oil quality. Hence they are in a unique position to make the multifactorial calculation as to how long if at all the engine should be idled - I rarely idle my engine because I rarely rag it just before I turn it off. Notably the exhaust gas, oil and intake temperatures typically all drop more quickly if you drive gently than they do if you idle the car because you still have airflow. Not infrequently with a hot car idling can you have the fans engage. Also you are more likely to get brake pad deposits on your discs or risk warping if you thrash the car and then stop it - better to let them cool by airflow. In addition if you have to park on a slope then how are you going to hold the vehicle still - with the handbrake or the brakes - either will give you a nasty squeal next time you go out if you have just roasted them and not let them cool.

You can have a lot more fun for £120

dhorwich

Hi,

I get fun out of my 1/4 mile time facility, 0-100km, 0-200km, 0-300km terminal speed, current and peak speed for a given set time....battery voltage (not exactly fun.. )and stop watch. As i said its not just about the timer... the new apexi turbo timer had an AFR readout and that alone is nearly worth the £100....

The blitz one has a digital boost gauge.... so thats worth nearly £100 too so you might as well get a turbo timer out of it....
Dan..

Andy.F

Subaru turbos are oil lubricated and water cooled. Older design turbos just had oil to do both jobs, they are the turbo's at risk from heat soak, not yours !!

I closely monitor exhaust gas temp. When the engine is switched off the probe tells me the turbo housing residual temperature. Believe me when I say 2 minutes idling only drops the temp by 30-40 degrees. That's not much when you start with 500+
Even after half an hour idle the EGT is still above 300 C

Unless you are racing and seeing 800+ deg EGT then the extended idle function is a waste of time

dhorwich

Think its also to do with the turbo still spinning quite fast and when the engine is turned off the oil supply to the turbo bearing is stopped.... thus the oil around the bearing that is still spinning cooks and has a tendancy to go like gunk....

Turbos can spin upto 100,000 rpm and if you stop your car after a run then the heat generated from a turbo propeller spinning at this speed and only having the small amount of oil around the bearing will cause problems..!!

Dan

Andy.F

I agree that you should always let the car idle a bit before shutting off. 10 seconds is all it takes for the turbo to reach idle speed.

It's the oil lubricated bearings that the cooling water jacket surrounds, this prevents cooking the oil.

Just the same as an exhaust valve>guide bearing surface on a turbocharged or normally aspirated engine - 600 degree C valve, thin oil film + cooling water jacket = No special cooldown treatment required

KenG

For clarification - The new age WRX has a water cooled turbo and previous models used the oil as the coolant. The two different styles of turbo seems to be causing some confusion as recommendations for one do not necessarily apply to the other. For MB's benefit, new age models do not carry the cooling down label.

For new age models there is no major advantage to be gained from a turbo timer (other than the placebo comfort factor). A 10 to 20 second idle is enough.

To really protect the turbo on any model year, use the right oil. Using an oil that has a high synthetic ester content (such as one of the Motul 300V oils) will help resist high temperature coking. This is such an important issue I am surprised it hasn't been discussed more.

Also, some insurance companies are far from happy about turbo timers, plus you can't use them in one of your regular stopping places - the petrol station.

Ken

Andy.F

Erm, I think you will find that ALL scoobies have water cooled turbos

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

AFAIK all scoobs use oil to cool their turbos, ive not seen one water pipe going to my turbo nor do MY01s and above that use the same engine and turbo as my MY00 UK turbo use water to cool their turbos either.
Id be very interested if someone could point out the resovoir that cools my turbo thus the reason i use fully synthetic oil in my car (and that nice warning on the door )

Tony

Andy.F

Maybe you're not looking hard enough The BIG black wiggly pipe is the outlet to the header tank, the inlet is on the side nearest the engine. This is a TD05....as fitted to most models 93 - 97

David_Wallis

I think most people believe the sh1te they get told... I agree with Andy on this I have always thought the same about the valves and rings and turbo... I slow down around built up honest and by the time the car is in the garage, that will do me. Turbo timers pah

David

SoreHead

Don't forget the sell on effect. I've bought 2 cars with them and one without. It's only perception, I know, but the first thing you think when you see it is that the previous owner had taken a little bit of extra care with the car.

Like I say it's only perception but it certainly helps when you're trying to choose between 2 of the same car if you know/think one was better looked after.
I like the sound of the boost guage one (not sure if I'd believe the accuracy of the accel. measures but they would be fun at least.

Is there much involved with fitting them?

chris singleton

I was initially put off fitting one of these by dealer who said could invalidate insurance. Not sure how, because I know that the car can not be driven away while the engine is cooling down.

I always leave the enginve running for a minute or two if I've been driving normally and for approx 5 minutes if I have been flooring it.

Still interested in having one fitted, although where would it go on an early dash? Can anyone recommend a fitter in London/Herts area also?

Chris

KenG

I may as well add more fuel to the fire. This from Subaru's technical tip bulletin in June 2001:

2002MY WRX TURBO COOL DOWN PROCEDURE

"FHI’s position regarding this is that it is not necessary to perform a “cool down/idling” procedure, as was recommended with past turbo models. Our current 2.0L turbo engine has a far greater cooling capacity and, coupled with technology advances, makes this practice no longer necessary. This explains why information about a cool down is not included in the 2002MY Impreza Owner’s Manual.

The heat contained in the turbo charger, will begin to vaporize the coolant at the turbo charger after the engine is stopped. This hot vapor will then enter the coolant reservoir tank, which is the highest point of the coolant system. At the same time the vapor exits the turbo charger, coolant supplied from the right bank cylinder head flows into the turbo. This action cools the turbo charger down. This process will continue until the vaporizing action in the turbo charger has stopped or cooled down."

I still say the right oil is more important than any turbo timer.

Ken

[Edited by KenG - 7/1/2002 5:38:46 PM]

[Edited by KenG - 7/1/2002 5:39:26 PM]

Pete Croney

I think they are a PITA.

If you can't learn to drive slowly for the last mile before you end your journey... or to sit in the car for 60 seconds at a motorway services before turning off, then you deserve to be £120 poorer

dhorwich

Hi,

Do you own a MY2002...???!

Quote from your piece of info...

"FHI’s position regarding this is that it is not necessary to perform a “cool down/idling” procedure, as was recommended with past turbo models".

As was recomedned on past turbo models


This is why i have a turbo timer because if removes the guess work.... i.e my turbo timer 'HKS type 1' has an automatic timer that takes info from the speed signal and the rpm signal at the ECU and calculates how long to leave the engine running.....

A couple of examples...

(1)
If i have a motorway run at 70-80mph for say 40mins +, at this speed the car also never goes into positive boost, however if i stop straight away the turbo timer registers that i leave my car for usually 2 and half to 3mins....!!

(2)
If i drive round town at about 30-40mph for say 30mins, with no boost for the last 10mins and stop straight away the car will need 30 secs to 1min cool down.... still not 10 secs like someone mentioned..!!

All im saying is dont knock it til you have tried it or at least seen one working.... i mean the peeps at HKS e.t.c should no a fair bit about engine/turbos e.t.c....!

Dan