Oil surge/starvation myth?
18 January 2016, 11:39 PM
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Oil surge/starvation myth?
After searching a lot, all I have found are failures due to the oil pickups cracking or upgraded pumps etc
What is the myth with oil starvation from track use causing bottom end knock? I know oil starvation will cause bottom end knock, but when has it actually been caused by cornering and not some other issue?
My car has been on track with the previous owner, has the toucan, so imagine the oil pressure was fine at castle combe as it has the wee alarms etc
I know guys that have ran with no baffles/windage tray and later with rcm windage tray, with no bad results before or after. I can see the killer b setup is the best going, but may be only available from the US.
On track I am a spirited driver, running ad08rs, hsd coilovers, whiteline arbs etc etc. Use good 15w50 oil. Engine is a 2.1.
Is there real evidence that the mods to the pick up/ windage tray or sumps really make a difference to oil pressure drops? Or do the pressure drops even get to a dangerous level?!
Im just not one for wasting time and money where its not needed, think many can agree with that. So many different things you could do for track prep, where does the prep stop and the fun begin!!!
What is the myth with oil starvation from track use causing bottom end knock? I know oil starvation will cause bottom end knock, but when has it actually been caused by cornering and not some other issue?
My car has been on track with the previous owner, has the toucan, so imagine the oil pressure was fine at castle combe as it has the wee alarms etc
I know guys that have ran with no baffles/windage tray and later with rcm windage tray, with no bad results before or after. I can see the killer b setup is the best going, but may be only available from the US.
On track I am a spirited driver, running ad08rs, hsd coilovers, whiteline arbs etc etc. Use good 15w50 oil. Engine is a 2.1.
Is there real evidence that the mods to the pick up/ windage tray or sumps really make a difference to oil pressure drops? Or do the pressure drops even get to a dangerous level?!
Im just not one for wasting time and money where its not needed, think many can agree with that. So many different things you could do for track prep, where does the prep stop and the fun begin!!!
Last edited by A1AXX; 18 January 2016 at 11:43 PM.
19 January 2016, 08:47 AM
#2
Without sounding too obvious, it's to do with the layout of the flat four, is the way it was explained to me, the cornering forces keep and push oil to the heads / cams so causing starvation at sump/crank level as there MAY be moments when there is very little or no oil for the pick up to suck due to it's location in the sump. This isn't going to cause immediate failure but over prolonged periods of track use will cause excessive wear on the big end shells, so shortening engine life.
I'm unsure how true this is in practice, but when you think about it it seems to make sense, ultimately it's going to vary from one engine to the next dependant on use and maintenance, but if I were planing on working my engine hard on a regular basis I'd be doing everything to ensure it has the best chance of survival in a harsh environment.
I'm unsure how true this is in practice, but when you think about it it seems to make sense, ultimately it's going to vary from one engine to the next dependant on use and maintenance, but if I were planing on working my engine hard on a regular basis I'd be doing everything to ensure it has the best chance of survival in a harsh environment.
19 January 2016, 09:22 AM
#3
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Without sounding too obvious, it's to do with the layout of the flat four, is the way it was explained to me, the cornering forces keep and push oil to the heads / cams so causing starvation at sump/crank level as there MAY be moments when there is very little or no oil for the pick up to suck due to it's location in the sump. This isn't going to cause immediate failure but over prolonged periods of track use will cause excessive wear on the big end shells, so shortening engine life.
I'm unsure how true this is in practice, but when you think about it it seems to make sense, ultimately it's going to vary from one engine to the next dependant on use and maintenance, but if I were planing on working my engine hard on a regular basis I'd be doing everything to ensure it has the best chance of survival in a harsh environment.
I'm unsure how true this is in practice, but when you think about it it seems to make sense, ultimately it's going to vary from one engine to the next dependant on use and maintenance, but if I were planing on working my engine hard on a regular basis I'd be doing everything to ensure it has the best chance of survival in a harsh environment.
19 January 2016, 09:39 AM
#4
Spec C sump is a popular up-grade, I think they come baffled and are bigger with a slightly different shape too, but not 100% on all the details.
As for the prep thing, it's one of the many reasons some of the regular track day boys go for the the Spec C as it's built for the job out the box, with gearbox and engine oil coolers and anti surge fuel pump amongst other things, works out cheaper in the long run and the car is worth more once you've finished canning it than something like a track prepped standard STI.
As for the prep thing, it's one of the many reasons some of the regular track day boys go for the the Spec C as it's built for the job out the box, with gearbox and engine oil coolers and anti surge fuel pump amongst other things, works out cheaper in the long run and the car is worth more once you've finished canning it than something like a track prepped standard STI.
19 January 2016, 10:25 AM
#5
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Spec C sump is a popular up-grade, I think they come baffled and are bigger with a slightly different shape too, but not 100% on all the details.
As for the prep thing, it's one of the many reasons some of the regular track day boys go for the the Spec C as it's built for the job out the box, with gearbox and engine oil coolers and anti surge fuel pump amongst other things, works out cheaper in the long run and the car is worth more once you've finished canning it than something like a track prepped standard STI.
As for the prep thing, it's one of the many reasons some of the regular track day boys go for the the Spec C as it's built for the job out the box, with gearbox and engine oil coolers and anti surge fuel pump amongst other things, works out cheaper in the long run and the car is worth more once you've finished canning it than something like a track prepped standard STI.
19 January 2016, 10:49 AM
#6
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I always recommend a baffled sump for track use, I've been rallying an Impreza in the woods since 2004 and only ever used a std sump, never had a problem. But the forces on track are differn't. Speak to Alyn at AS Performance for a very cost effective modified std sump, as per Prodrive group N, but improved.
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20 January 2016, 09:21 PM
#8
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Thread Starter
I always recommend a baffled sump for track use, I've been rallying an Impreza in the woods since 2004 and only ever used a std sump, never had a problem. But the forces on track are differn't. Speak to Alyn at AS Performance for a very cost effective modified std sump, as per Prodrive group N, but improved.
I take it the grp n is the smooth top plate and the modified sump is smoothed to copy the prodrive one?
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